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hey everybody it's going to be a wicked

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episode today it's not every day we get

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to introduce our viewers and listeners

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to a former CIA spy like legitimate

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former CIA spy and uh we found out he's

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also one of the co-founders of to the

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Stars Academy so I don't know about you

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Jay but I'm super pumped this has been a

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long time in the making uh and I'm ready

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to rock and let's hear what this guy's

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hello

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[Music]

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all right welcome back to another

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episode of UAP studies podcast my name

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is Louis Borges joining me as always my

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good friend and co-host Jason Gilman

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how's it going it's going really well

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I'm super excited I can say this is a

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first for us in our show we have a

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former CIA spy legitimate CIA spy great

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guy as well and a Gentleman who also

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knows a lot about the field of uaps and

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has transitioned from one career into

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another I mean this gentleman had a

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25-year distinguished career within the

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CIA retired in 2007 he also worked with

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the National Clandestine Service I mean

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that says spy all over it you're a

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clandestine member and uh you know at

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the time of her retirement he was a

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member of the senior intelligence

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service he's held many senior management

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positions with at head office at CIA

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headquarters and also the recipient of

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the agency's career intelligence medal I

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could go on for hours but without

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further Ado we want to welcome the show

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Mr Jim semiven hello Lily hi hi Jason

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how are you thank you so much for having

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me on we're super happy to have you on

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we've been jacked about this for a

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couple of weeks since we know you've

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been here we usually don't release our

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coming soon episode until the week of uh

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but yeah I mean we have a small bubble

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of people that are into this thing and

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it's been Jason and I and maybe two

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other guys that are like oh my God we

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got Jim savy Van coming on the show most

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other people have no clue who we are or

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you are or anybody exactly exactly this

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show is for the people that are really

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into this subject as our viewers know

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we're very fact based and on point we

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look for credentials and they don't get

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any bigger or better than yours so yeah

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thank you yeah yeah so tell us a little

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bit about yourself uh and then sort of

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your career in the CIA and then we can

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transition into what you're working on

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today

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sure uh you know I'm pretty uh General

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existence I mean I was born in Ohio uh I

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was a paper boy an altar boy raised

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Catholic

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um uh but uh you know undergraduate at

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Ohio State University and then graduate

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school San Francisco State University

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where I majored in uh English literature

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with a concentration on uh British and

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American transcendentalism slash

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Romanticism

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um uh I worked all kinds of jobs

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restaurant industry bartending running

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restaurants things along those lines and

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then I I

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got involved uh with the CIA recruitment

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process while I was in San Francisco and

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moved to got accepted and then moved

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into uh the agency in 1982 uh

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subsequently about 10 months afterwards

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got married and then went over to my

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first assignment um in the Middle East

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um I spent a couple years there and then

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came back and then a variety of jobs uh

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uh both in the United States

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throughout the United States and um

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overseas my last assignment overseas

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assignment was uh was in Europe Western

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Europe and then I came back and got into

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the senior ranks of CIA and held

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positions there

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um uh and it wasn't it and I and I went

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back I retired in 2007 I took about nine

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ten months off went back for a year to

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work with the director of CIA on a on a

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project he had going on

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and then subsequently worked uh for 12

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more years after that as a private

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contractor an independent contractor

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working for our directorate of Science

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and Technology uh and then I think I

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left completely about three years ago I

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think I still hold my clearances

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um but I don't know I haven't shopped

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it's not that important anyway so uh to

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me at least not anymore but um and then

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I met Tom Delong

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um in uh 2000

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the dates are a little squishy here for

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me I apologize uh 2015 maybe 2016

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um uh and Tom and I formed a company to

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the Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences

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which is now called to the Stars Inc

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through the Stars Incorporated we

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restructured about a year ago

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um and we went to the SEC we're a public

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benefit Corporation so

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um we have to give we do give you know

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10 15 of our any profits we make to

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um uh charitable organizations uh

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organizations that uh you know help

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other people things along those lines uh

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and hopefully in the future once our

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company kicks off we'll have more money

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to throw at the UAP phenomenon so

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uh and that's pretty much where I am now

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so what was the the reason for removing

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the academy from ttsa

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we uh well you know we had when we first

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started to the stars um it was myself

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Tom hell put off and two other gentlemen

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who I will not name uh um they preferred

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not they're very well known you would

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know them

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uh and uh we were all having lunch in

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San Diego at a hotel

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and Tom suggested we all join him in

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this new organization he was

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putting together and

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um all of us pretty much declined uh

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initially and uh when we're interested

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and because he was mostly into

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entertainment doing things along those

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lines and uh

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uh so we uh and I we said no and he said

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what what would you what would make you

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what would entice you to start one with

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with me and

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so I I told him I said you know we're

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all pretty much interested in

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researching the phenomena we're not

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really interested in the other side the

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entertainment side all that much

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um and she said well what would it look

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like so I got a cocktail nap get and I

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sketched it out and we can do the

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entertainment side that's what's going

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to make the money if you know then we'll

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do a research side

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um and uh he agreed right right off the

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bat so uh the other two gentlemen had

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really truly had way too many

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commitments to get involved in this but

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Hal put off on myself immediately agreed

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and we formed the company uh but when we

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formed it um we had about 15 or 16 r d

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projects

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um that we were very excited about uh

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that we brought in

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um some of them um you know we had the I

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own the IP for another ones we didn't

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but nevertheless were able to use the

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technology

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um being the electron propulsion things

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along those lines uh space-time metric

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dealing with space-time metric

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but that required an enormous sum of

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money to do that and uh

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we uh I had some private funding lined

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up and as you know we're since we were

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uh

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had a lot of investors we had about 4

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000 investors now

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um but we were looking for they were

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small mom-and-pop investors which was

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fine that's what we wanted we wanted to

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have them there

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um

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but uh we had some uh pretty big time

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investors sort of lined up there and

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then all of a sudden the pandemic hit

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and uh I mean we had a crater with the

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Army uh to research some you know meta

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materials that we had and and everything

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just collapsed

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so uh luckily they had a marketing arm

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you know they sold t-shirts things lined

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us lines and that was doing reasonably

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well so we were able to stay afloat but

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a lot of our funding sort of disappeared

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um even the Army who was working with us

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at the time said look we can't even get

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people to come in and research this so

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everything was on hold for a couple

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years and then we decided look you know

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we're having a hard time

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trying to get money for some of the

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funding and the r d projects so we

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decided to actually put them on the back

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burner and said look why don't we just

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focus on what we're gonna we can make

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some money on for our investors uh and

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that's the entertainment side and then

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we will keep the r d side but once we

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get some money flowing in and if

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investors start coming in in a large way

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we can certainly go back to that I mean

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that's all it's all set up and ready to

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go it's just a question of getting the

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funds to do it so we we anticipated you

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know a lot more uh private investment

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from more more people but it is we've

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found out

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this is a sort of a niche Community

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isn't it I mean yeah it's not that big

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uh and a lot of people don't have a lot

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of money yeah it's totally

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understandable so you know our first our

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first goal is you know for the investors

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we don't want the investors to lose

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their money so you know we said okay

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we're going to stay afloat the best way

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we can and we're gonna have a goal as

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you know is is get a return on the

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dollar for our our investors here and

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also as important I think even to the

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investors is figuring out what the hell

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this phenomenon is and uh so we're

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working on that so we recently signed

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the deal with legendary pictures you

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know the ones who just did Dune nice uh

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they're going to take the secret

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machines fiction Trilogy and hopefully

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turn it into a television series or a

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movie

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um so they have a two-year option I

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think on that uh we sold uh just

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recently a an animated series has

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nothing to do with UAP uh it was one of

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these ideas Tom and this other guy came

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up I thought was really crazy it's

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called breaking bear about some bears

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who become drug lords you know sort of

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like break take off on Breaking Bad

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purchased by Toby a streaming service

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and then we have about a dozen other

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entertainment projects all lined up and

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we have writers and uh screenplays are

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being done and uh so we're real excited

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about that hopefully in the near future

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we'll have some more stuff and so that's

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why we decided to change the name to the

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star saying it just was we wanted to get

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rid of the Academy of Arts and Sciences

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it's a science part to sort of downplay

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that for the time being although it's

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not going anywhere so that's sort of up

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to date what we've been up to so what

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got you into the whole field of uaps I

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mean I'm sure many people in the CIA

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probably don't speak about that openly

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if they're into that sort of thing so

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did you have an experience or you know

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00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:57,180
what got you from a you know a staunch

276
00:11:01,069 --> 00:10:59,519
guy with lots of credentials to want to

277
00:11:02,449 --> 00:11:01,079
come forward and say yeah I'm into this

278
00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:02,459
and I think we should look at it a

279
00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:04,320
little deeper

280
00:11:09,170 --> 00:11:07,260
that's a good question I I um uh I think

281
00:11:12,410 --> 00:11:09,180
as I explained before on a couple other

282
00:11:14,090 --> 00:11:12,420
podcasts I always had a deep interest in

283
00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:14,100
the esoteric

284
00:11:20,210 --> 00:11:17,279
uh my older brother who passed away

285
00:11:21,710 --> 00:11:20,220
recently was a big influence on my life

286
00:11:24,829 --> 00:11:21,720
and

287
00:11:26,990 --> 00:11:24,839
I uh uh I got very interested in uh

288
00:11:29,949 --> 00:11:27,000
Western mysticism and then later on

289
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:29,959
Eastern mysticism and then Romanticism

290
00:11:34,490 --> 00:11:32,160
uh uh

291
00:11:37,730 --> 00:11:34,500
the German Romanticism actually at the

292
00:11:42,829 --> 00:11:37,740
time and and uh uh started studying

293
00:11:46,610 --> 00:11:45,170
Western Mystery Schools Greek Mystery

294
00:11:49,850 --> 00:11:46,620
Schools Roman Mystery Schools things

295
00:11:52,069 --> 00:11:49,860
along those lines but around 92 we're

296
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:52,079
not my wife and I are 100 sure the exact

297
00:11:56,509 --> 00:11:54,240
day but it's probably around 91.92 we

298
00:11:57,710 --> 00:11:56,519
had a an experience

299
00:12:01,750 --> 00:11:57,720
um

300
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:01,760
uh that happened to us and I I don't

301
00:12:07,069 --> 00:12:04,320
really talk about it in any great detail

302
00:12:09,710 --> 00:12:07,079
I did a full presentation on it at a at

303
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:09,720
a stink tank think tank with a

304
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:13,440
a group of Scholars about six months ago

305
00:12:18,590 --> 00:12:15,600
and we all were sharing it uh sharing

306
00:12:20,629 --> 00:12:18,600
our experiences together but um I'm not

307
00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:20,639
ready to talk about it I don't call it

308
00:12:24,889 --> 00:12:22,320
an abduction experience I just call it

309
00:12:26,930 --> 00:12:24,899
really what it is I think is is an

310
00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:26,940
experience I don't I don't know what it

311
00:12:34,190 --> 00:12:32,040
is uh so that got me uh more interested

312
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:34,200
in uaps

313
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:38,639
and this whole concept around it uh a

314
00:12:43,550 --> 00:12:40,560
friend of mine at work found out about

315
00:12:46,370 --> 00:12:43,560
what happened to me and my wife and uh

316
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:46,380
recommended books by Jacques valet

317
00:12:50,930 --> 00:12:49,680
I read those uh and then it wasn't until

318
00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:50,940
20

319
00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:54,420
14 that I ran into

320
00:12:57,650 --> 00:12:56,220
um uh

321
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:57,660
uh this is sort of the shortened version

322
00:13:01,850 --> 00:13:00,240
of John Alexander yeah who's just a

323
00:13:05,449 --> 00:13:01,860
wonderful man

324
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:05,459
um uh and he was uh he was sort of

325
00:13:10,910 --> 00:13:08,160
a tip before atip okay he was the guy

326
00:13:11,629 --> 00:13:10,920
right he's a wonderful guy and his dear

327
00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:11,639
friend

328
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:13,980
and uh I ran into him my wife and I ran

329
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:15,600
into him at an energy conference a

330
00:13:21,889 --> 00:13:18,480
healing energy conference up in New York

331
00:13:24,650 --> 00:13:21,899
and we became friends and he

332
00:13:27,769 --> 00:13:24,660
uh

333
00:13:29,870 --> 00:13:27,779
we we had some material from The

334
00:13:32,509 --> 00:13:29,880
Experience he came down to our house he

335
00:13:35,930 --> 00:13:32,519
interviewed my wife and myself and

336
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:35,940
um took it back to a DARPA lab and um

337
00:13:39,170 --> 00:13:37,680
the and the experience in the videotape

338
00:13:41,269 --> 00:13:39,180
and then

339
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:41,279
a couple weeks later

340
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:43,199
um that's when sort of all hell broke

341
00:13:47,329 --> 00:13:45,360
loose we you know Jacques delay came out

342
00:13:49,250 --> 00:13:47,339
to my house and you know and spent the

343
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:49,260
day with us it's just oh wow truly

344
00:13:56,090 --> 00:13:51,360
wonderful man and

345
00:13:58,009 --> 00:13:56,100
uh and then uh we then we had um people

346
00:13:59,629 --> 00:13:58,019
come over to our house and uh like I

347
00:14:00,590 --> 00:13:59,639
said these these people now are very

348
00:14:03,470 --> 00:14:00,600
well known

349
00:14:05,930 --> 00:14:03,480
in the community and uh took blood

350
00:14:08,269 --> 00:14:05,940
samples and things along those lines

351
00:14:11,629 --> 00:14:08,279
took our medical records and I happen to

352
00:14:14,449 --> 00:14:11,639
have kept them all and and then um and

353
00:14:16,930 --> 00:14:14,459
then not too long after that

354
00:14:20,509 --> 00:14:16,940
um I had uh briefings

355
00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:20,519
uh on the classified level uh by again

356
00:14:25,550 --> 00:14:22,620
people that you would you would know

357
00:14:27,069 --> 00:14:25,560
um at CIA

358
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:27,079
and that

359
00:14:35,210 --> 00:14:31,380
uh sort of took me from being a sort of

360
00:14:36,530 --> 00:14:35,220
a amateur investigator you know I've

361
00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:36,540
never been an investigator I take that

362
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:39,480
back this is an amateur uh Enthusiast

363
00:14:46,250 --> 00:14:42,480
yeah and and uh that sort of changed

364
00:14:51,009 --> 00:14:46,260
everything so uh and that's uh when I

365
00:14:55,210 --> 00:14:51,019
became uh uh convinced

366
00:14:59,810 --> 00:14:55,220
uh that um they're totally 110 percent

367
00:15:01,670 --> 00:14:59,820
uh convinced and assured that what uh

368
00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:01,680
not what I had experienced but what was

369
00:15:05,569 --> 00:15:04,500
being experienced uh by other people and

370
00:15:08,990 --> 00:15:05,579
particularly

371
00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:09,000
uh by the military was real it was very

372
00:15:13,009 --> 00:15:10,920
real and uh

373
00:15:16,009 --> 00:15:13,019
and then at that point

374
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:16,019
um I was introduced to Lou Elizondo at

375
00:15:20,210 --> 00:15:17,279
the Pentagon

376
00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:20,220
uh met with him numerous times and his

377
00:15:25,069 --> 00:15:21,000
staff

378
00:15:28,129 --> 00:15:25,079
uh to discuss this uh and uh and then

379
00:15:29,930 --> 00:15:28,139
one thing led to another and um

380
00:15:32,090 --> 00:15:29,940
you know to my surprise when they lose

381
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:32,100
that you know I I'm gonna I'm gonna

382
00:15:37,310 --> 00:15:34,800
resign and and um so I quickly

383
00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:37,320
introduced him to Tom and then Lou

384
00:15:42,889 --> 00:15:41,820
joined uh PTSA as did Chris melon who

385
00:15:45,410 --> 00:15:42,899
came sort of

386
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:45,420
Tom hit I think I called Chris and asked

387
00:15:50,030 --> 00:15:46,800
him some questions and Chris joined up

388
00:15:53,810 --> 00:15:50,040
and then Steve Justice did from uh uh

389
00:15:57,710 --> 00:15:53,820
you know uh from the uh you know from

390
00:16:00,110 --> 00:15:57,720
Lucky Skunk Works and uh so it it all

391
00:16:02,269 --> 00:16:00,120
happened very quickly uh and uh we

392
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:02,279
decided we were going to do that and Lou

393
00:16:05,749 --> 00:16:05,040
was able to get the um the three films

394
00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:05,759
um

395
00:16:11,150 --> 00:16:08,100
three film clips Declassified

396
00:16:12,829 --> 00:16:11,160
uh or Uncle yeah yeah Declassified and

397
00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:12,839
um so a lot of the data that was

398
00:16:17,689 --> 00:16:15,180
associated with it was taken away uh the

399
00:16:19,009 --> 00:16:17,699
top secret stuff was taken away uh and

400
00:16:20,329 --> 00:16:19,019
you were left with what you were left

401
00:16:24,170 --> 00:16:20,339
with there were shortened versions of

402
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:24,180
the video but um and then afterwards

403
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:26,639
everything sort of went forward with

404
00:16:33,949 --> 00:16:30,240
Congress I sort of started doing the

405
00:16:37,730 --> 00:16:33,959
briefings at uh CIA

406
00:16:40,129 --> 00:16:37,740
and dni and other places to let them

407
00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:40,139
know we were going public with this and

408
00:16:45,290 --> 00:16:44,100
uh that was met rather well uh by all

409
00:16:46,670 --> 00:16:45,300
concerned I mean I said we're not going

410
00:16:48,249 --> 00:16:46,680
to let any classified information out

411
00:16:50,689 --> 00:16:48,259
the door I said but at the same time

412
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:50,699
this doesn't belong to the government it

413
00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:52,800
didn't belong to any government and

414
00:16:56,930 --> 00:16:55,620
and so we're we have to go private so

415
00:16:58,850 --> 00:16:56,940
they they were fine you know keep us

416
00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:58,860
posted so we have we still have links

417
00:17:02,810 --> 00:17:01,440
you know with them and I still have

418
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:02,820
links with the task force and stuff

419
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:05,640
along those lines um as does Lou and

420
00:17:09,289 --> 00:17:07,439
Chris so

421
00:17:11,809 --> 00:17:09,299
um and that sort of

422
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:11,819
where we ended up and that's where I am

423
00:17:16,909 --> 00:17:13,439
today I don't I don't take a very

424
00:17:18,529 --> 00:17:16,919
prominent role I chose not to uh it may

425
00:17:20,409 --> 00:17:18,539
change it may not change actually I'm

426
00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:20,419
thinking of pulling back a little bit

427
00:17:25,250 --> 00:17:23,640
uh I I'm not I don't like being

428
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:25,260
front and center and I think I've said

429
00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:28,079
all I really want to say I don't know I

430
00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:30,600
I I apologize in a way I hope I don't

431
00:17:35,450 --> 00:17:32,880
end up I'm going to end up repeating

432
00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:35,460
myself in a lot of this stuff uh with

433
00:17:40,090 --> 00:17:37,260
you guys but it's mostly been said

434
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:40,100
before but that's sort of where I am now

435
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:43,200
very very long-winded I apologize I want

436
00:17:46,610 --> 00:17:44,640
to ask you on the three videos because

437
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:46,620
we've had people say well we don't know

438
00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:48,480
if that was the only footage was there

439
00:17:52,669 --> 00:17:50,220
more was there enhanced footage we had

440
00:17:54,770 --> 00:17:52,679
Sean Cahill on the show and he was the

441
00:17:57,289 --> 00:17:54,780
master sergeant of arms of the USS

442
00:17:59,210 --> 00:17:57,299
Princeton that got the footage he's also

443
00:18:01,070 --> 00:17:59,220
a very good friend of Lou Elizondo and

444
00:18:04,730 --> 00:18:01,080
he had said I I've seen a higher

445
00:18:06,350 --> 00:18:04,740
definition version than you have so you

446
00:18:08,570 --> 00:18:06,360
kind of touched on that there that you

447
00:18:10,669 --> 00:18:08,580
know it's a an edited version so there

448
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:10,679
is a larger clip with more detail to

449
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:12,240
those three videos that we all know so

450
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:14,640
well yeah yeah and there are many many

451
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:17,580
more videos as uh as Lewis pointed out I

452
00:18:21,890 --> 00:18:19,919
think numerous times and those videos

453
00:18:23,810 --> 00:18:21,900
many of those videos plus other

454
00:18:27,409 --> 00:18:23,820
information were presented to Congress

455
00:18:32,510 --> 00:18:27,419
yeah and I I think I think Congress was

456
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:32,520
uh really taken aback when they saw this

457
00:18:38,450 --> 00:18:36,240
I was uh and uh I mean it was it was

458
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:38,460
very apparent

459
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:40,080
um that um

460
00:18:44,510 --> 00:18:41,520
that

461
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:44,520
we're we're not alone and there is

462
00:18:47,330 --> 00:18:46,320
something else out there

463
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:47,340
now

464
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:52,080
was

465
00:18:56,510 --> 00:18:54,240
said by I think I don't know if jock

466
00:18:59,630 --> 00:18:56,520
said this or Ted Holliday said this in

467
00:19:01,070 --> 00:18:59,640
the goblin universe but it was a quote

468
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:01,080
something along the lines of you know

469
00:19:04,970 --> 00:19:03,600
the the there's plenty of evidence right

470
00:19:06,890 --> 00:19:04,980
pointing to this

471
00:19:08,810 --> 00:19:06,900
uh the problem is there isn't a theory

472
00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:08,820
to explain the evidence so you know

473
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:10,380
that's sort of where we are with this

474
00:19:14,210 --> 00:19:13,200
right now I alluded to this once uh you

475
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:14,220
know I was saying that there's no

476
00:19:19,970 --> 00:19:17,280
they're there there's no ontology uh

477
00:19:23,390 --> 00:19:19,980
there's no place we can go to and say oh

478
00:19:24,289 --> 00:19:23,400
it fits into this we think uh it may fit

479
00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:24,299
into

480
00:19:28,909 --> 00:19:27,720
as Lou you know mentioned before that I

481
00:19:30,890 --> 00:19:28,919
had asked him once I said what do you

482
00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:30,900
think this Falls and he said probably in

483
00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:32,580
the Nexus between

484
00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:33,240
um

485
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,260
somehow in there you might begin to find

486
00:19:42,529 --> 00:19:39,600
an explanation yeah and I think he's

487
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:42,539
probably correct in that um but you know

488
00:19:46,850 --> 00:19:44,160
a lot of people are studying it now so

489
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:46,860
uh you know hopefully we'll we'll

490
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:50,720
start finding more um uh uh

491
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:53,520
signals in the noise so to speak

492
00:19:59,570 --> 00:19:56,880
but yeah yeah Sean Sean is correct

493
00:20:01,310 --> 00:19:59,580
um about that yeah I like the idea from

494
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,320
one of your partners Hal put off it's

495
00:20:05,570 --> 00:20:03,840
sort of the ultra terrestrial so as you

496
00:20:08,510 --> 00:20:05,580
mentioned like we all have theories but

497
00:20:10,730 --> 00:20:08,520
there's no real set of rules to test and

498
00:20:12,649 --> 00:20:10,740
measure and you know see if it can stand

499
00:20:14,210 --> 00:20:12,659
on its own two legs so the

500
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:14,220
ultra-terrestrial just kind of

501
00:20:20,210 --> 00:20:16,559
encompasses everything maybe it's not

502
00:20:21,950 --> 00:20:20,220
aliens or interdimensional beings or you

503
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:21,960
know cryptage or something else maybe

504
00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:23,280
it's a little bit of everything and

505
00:20:27,049 --> 00:20:24,900
they're all coexisting or they're all

506
00:20:28,610 --> 00:20:27,059
somehow interrelated and as you

507
00:20:30,049 --> 00:20:28,620
mentioned quantum mechanics you know the

508
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:30,059
deeper you go down the rabbit hole on

509
00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:32,159
this thing even Career Pros like George

510
00:20:36,409 --> 00:20:33,900
Knapp have been doing this like 30 years

511
00:20:38,210 --> 00:20:36,419
they used to be nuts and bolts UFO guys

512
00:20:40,029 --> 00:20:38,220
and now they're like there's a lot more

513
00:20:42,529 --> 00:20:40,039
to this you know they had some weird

514
00:20:44,990 --> 00:20:42,539
hitchhiker effects they called them from

515
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:45,000
Skinwalker Ranch orbs and you know

516
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:46,020
things they brought home with their

517
00:20:49,370 --> 00:20:48,000
family and their wives saw it and and

518
00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:49,380
they don't even want to talk about it

519
00:20:53,149 --> 00:20:50,940
themselves and you'd think as

520
00:20:55,610 --> 00:20:53,159
enthusiasts they'd be dying to tell the

521
00:20:58,190 --> 00:20:55,620
story but when weird stuff happens it's

522
00:20:59,870 --> 00:20:58,200
real and it's not a joke and both Jason

523
00:21:01,789 --> 00:20:59,880
and myself have had some weird things

524
00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:01,799
happen you know we weren't abducted by

525
00:21:06,289 --> 00:21:04,380
Little Green Men but enough to know that

526
00:21:08,690 --> 00:21:06,299
there's more going on than we fully

527
00:21:10,909 --> 00:21:08,700
understand so yeah yeah and that's a

528
00:21:13,070 --> 00:21:10,919
really good point uh Louis the you know

529
00:21:14,810 --> 00:21:13,080
you have to sort of

530
00:21:16,730 --> 00:21:14,820
sort of stand back a little bit I mean

531
00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:16,740
I'd like to thank you know guys like

532
00:21:21,710 --> 00:21:18,960
George you can call him Kelleher and Bob

533
00:21:23,330 --> 00:21:21,720
Bigelow Eric Davis you know John

534
00:21:24,649 --> 00:21:23,340
Alexander these are the guys that were

535
00:21:25,970 --> 00:21:24,659
initially involved with mids you know

536
00:21:29,210 --> 00:21:25,980
National Institute for Discovery Science

537
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,220
and then later on the bass program uh

538
00:21:34,970 --> 00:21:31,440
and uh who were working for Dia at the

539
00:21:37,370 --> 00:21:34,980
time and um the they were the ones I I

540
00:21:40,669 --> 00:21:37,380
think in the end basically came out and

541
00:21:42,470 --> 00:21:40,679
solidified this idea that it's not just

542
00:21:44,930 --> 00:21:42,480
about nuts and bolts that there's a lot

543
00:21:47,210 --> 00:21:44,940
more associated with it and you'll you

544
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:47,220
see that in in the gillibrand amendment

545
00:21:50,690 --> 00:21:48,480
you know to the National Defense

546
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:50,700
Security Act uh

547
00:21:55,310 --> 00:21:53,520
um and 22 but they were talking about

548
00:21:58,130 --> 00:21:55,320
you know um

549
00:21:59,570 --> 00:21:58,140
biological psychological effects of this

550
00:22:01,909 --> 00:21:59,580
and it just isn't all nuts involved

551
00:22:03,710 --> 00:22:01,919
there's a lot more to it so Jim lakasky

552
00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:03,720
who originally ran the atip program

553
00:22:09,049 --> 00:22:05,700
these are the guys I think are the the

554
00:22:12,110 --> 00:22:09,059
Pioneers you know nap the catsky Bigelow

555
00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:12,120
you know Davis these guys are uh you

556
00:22:16,130 --> 00:22:14,580
know Hal John Alexander these are the

557
00:22:20,450 --> 00:22:16,140
guys that pretty much set everything up

558
00:22:24,049 --> 00:22:20,460
for what I called the real totality of

559
00:22:26,810 --> 00:22:24,059
of the phenomenon and uh of course guys

560
00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:26,820
like me you know uh who were sort of

561
00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:29,640
briefed on some of this beforehand and

562
00:22:32,029 --> 00:22:30,900
it's surprisingly a lot of the stuff

563
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,039
that was briefed to me than the

564
00:22:36,409 --> 00:22:34,159
classified technique is now unclassified

565
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:36,419
and it's being talked about out there

566
00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:38,100
holy cow well okay you know that that's

567
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:39,299
fine

568
00:22:44,330 --> 00:22:42,000
um uh but yeah I mean it's uh it's a

569
00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:44,340
very very strange phenomenon and uh I I

570
00:22:48,409 --> 00:22:45,780
wish to hell

571
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,419
I knew where to go with it I I um I

572
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:49,919
don't I mean there are many times I I

573
00:22:55,210 --> 00:22:52,559
want to walk away and because I just I

574
00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:55,220
just don't know where to turn I mean I

575
00:22:59,210 --> 00:22:57,360
but there's always a fascinating new

576
00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:59,220
book that comes out yeah

577
00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:01,679
and uh then yes what was it that fellow

578
00:23:06,770 --> 00:23:04,260
as his name Masters or yeah Michael Paul

579
00:23:09,049 --> 00:23:06,780
Masters yeah when I was on a few weeks

580
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:09,059
ago we had him on our show yeah yeah

581
00:23:12,890 --> 00:23:11,039
great guy what a wonderful book I just

582
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:12,900
heard him on Coast to Coast uh not too

583
00:23:17,870 --> 00:23:16,080
long ago and uh uh I think I connected

584
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:17,880
with him once on LinkedIn or someplace

585
00:23:24,409 --> 00:23:20,640
and uh uh absolutely fascinating guy

586
00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:24,419
yeah he's an anthropologist yeah he's

587
00:23:27,950 --> 00:23:26,159
used to looking at bones and you know

588
00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:27,960
dinosaurs and things like that so

589
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,840
there's not too many old age guys that

590
00:23:33,890 --> 00:23:32,640
are really interested in the new age I

591
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:33,900
mean some of them want to connect the

592
00:23:37,970 --> 00:23:35,520
dots and imply that everything was

593
00:23:40,010 --> 00:23:37,980
aliens but you know there's popular TV

594
00:23:41,870 --> 00:23:40,020
programming based on that exact uh

595
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:41,880
premise you know but it was interesting

596
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:44,880
to get his I his take on it as a

597
00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:47,760
scientist a doctor essentially and he

598
00:23:51,710 --> 00:23:50,100
basically said that if you take what we

599
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,720
used to look like fast forward to what

600
00:23:56,210 --> 00:23:53,520
we look like now and then keep that

601
00:23:58,370 --> 00:23:56,220
going eventually our heads continue to

602
00:24:00,649 --> 00:23:58,380
grow our arms you know we're not hunting

603
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:00,659
for food and Ford anymore so we lose our

604
00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:03,600
muscle mass our Jaws are shrinking maybe

605
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:05,100
that causes some type of an eye

606
00:24:09,289 --> 00:24:06,960
protrusion because of the big head and

607
00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:09,299
the small jaw he theorized we're

608
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:11,880
basically gray aliens in a million years

609
00:24:17,210 --> 00:24:14,240
anyway if you just follow the Natural

610
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,220
Evolution of things so very interesting

611
00:24:21,470 --> 00:24:19,440
perspective what was his uh is it Ultra

612
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:21,480
tempestrial is what he said extra

613
00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:23,840
temperature

614
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:27,000
travelers from the future yeah just come

615
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:28,799
back to harvest genetic material or

616
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:30,480
something else that we're not sure about

617
00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:32,159
but this is what's really important

618
00:24:38,090 --> 00:24:35,700
about this about this subject area is is

619
00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:38,100
getting new and interesting theories in

620
00:24:43,549 --> 00:24:41,460
here to discuss them all I know

621
00:24:44,990 --> 00:24:43,559
um you know the the task force and

622
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:45,000
there's not just one there's probably a

623
00:24:49,549 --> 00:24:47,340
couple tasks for us and and um because I

624
00:24:51,230 --> 00:24:49,559
mean anytime there's money to be had by

625
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:51,240
Congress trust me everybody wants to

626
00:24:56,029 --> 00:24:53,340
start a task force

627
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:56,039
um you know I think most of them because

628
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,600
it and this is the one of the reasons

629
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:59,520
why we really wanted to go private is

630
00:25:02,450 --> 00:25:01,919
why TTS was started

631
00:25:05,330 --> 00:25:02,460
um

632
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,340
because it was just we knew that the

633
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:07,200
government was really focusing on one

634
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:08,640
thing and asked National Defense that's

635
00:25:12,049 --> 00:25:10,320
what it's supposed to be doing that's

636
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,059
what the intelligence Community does so

637
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:15,120
what happens is um everybody's you know

638
00:25:18,769 --> 00:25:17,760
gets very high expectations at all isn't

639
00:25:20,810 --> 00:25:18,779
this great you know we're going to get

640
00:25:22,430 --> 00:25:20,820
Congress is going to get all these these

641
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:22,440
reports you know from the military and

642
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:25,860
from the IC talking about no no I mean

643
00:25:28,190 --> 00:25:26,880
they're going to get something but

644
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:28,200
they're not going to get they're not

645
00:25:32,210 --> 00:25:29,760
going to get the Family Jewels here and

646
00:25:34,610 --> 00:25:32,220
and and because

647
00:25:38,510 --> 00:25:34,620
if they deem it to be a national

648
00:25:40,130 --> 00:25:38,520
security issue and believe me it is uh a

649
00:25:42,769 --> 00:25:40,140
lot of it is

650
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:42,779
um and and has nothing to do by the way

651
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:44,400
it just has everything to do with other

652
00:25:48,890 --> 00:25:47,279
countries not not just right just us I

653
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,900
mean you know if I don't think the

654
00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:50,640
government knows a damn thing about what

655
00:25:55,130 --> 00:25:52,500
the phenomenon is the honest with you I

656
00:25:56,930 --> 00:25:55,140
just don't I I don't I haven't seen yeah

657
00:25:58,190 --> 00:25:56,940
I often said that I don't think that

658
00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:58,200
they know exactly what they're doing

659
00:26:01,610 --> 00:26:00,240
yeah but they are focusing on the nuts

660
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,620
and bolts and man you know when they

661
00:26:07,010 --> 00:26:03,600
have been focusing on you know for years

662
00:26:09,470 --> 00:26:07,020
decades on the Paranormal stuff you know

663
00:26:10,930 --> 00:26:09,480
you know and and uh and then I'm sure

664
00:26:13,730 --> 00:26:10,940
they're still doing that

665
00:26:15,409 --> 00:26:13,740
uh but I I don't think they've come to

666
00:26:19,130 --> 00:26:15,419
any kind of conclusions

667
00:26:22,610 --> 00:26:19,140
um I was uh you know I was at CIA when

668
00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:22,620
when uh I was up on the seventh floor

669
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:26,880
uh I was a Special Assistant uh to uh

670
00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:29,520
the deputy director of operations at the

671
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:31,679
time when the

672
00:26:37,490 --> 00:26:35,520
uh remote viewing program was canceled

673
00:26:39,289 --> 00:26:37,500
and I remember

674
00:26:40,430 --> 00:26:39,299
reading about the remote viewing program

675
00:26:42,110 --> 00:26:40,440
and knowing a little bit of what it was

676
00:26:44,149 --> 00:26:42,120
about and I remember talking to the

677
00:26:45,890 --> 00:26:44,159
fellow that ran the program he was a

678
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:45,900
very senior guy there and he became a

679
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:47,760
friend of mine and and I asked him I

680
00:26:50,990 --> 00:26:49,679
said what the hell did you guys why did

681
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:51,000
you cancel that

682
00:26:57,289 --> 00:26:55,140
and he said he said we we couldn't use

683
00:27:00,110 --> 00:26:57,299
it in an intelligence assessment so in

684
00:27:03,049 --> 00:27:00,120
other words it's the same problem you

685
00:27:05,330 --> 00:27:03,059
know it's it's plenty of evidence to

686
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:05,340
prove that it works and it did work and

687
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:08,400
very successfully worked uh probably she

688
00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:10,559
couldn't you couldn't you couldn't

689
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:13,140
explain it and as he pointed out to me

690
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:15,120
he said if you tried to use that in an

691
00:27:18,110 --> 00:27:16,799
intelligence assessment and say you took

692
00:27:20,029 --> 00:27:18,120
it to the president

693
00:27:21,889 --> 00:27:20,039
say the Russians were developing you

694
00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:21,899
know a new missile a new submarine or

695
00:27:28,370 --> 00:27:24,840
new new radar facility and somebody you

696
00:27:29,870 --> 00:27:28,380
know went in uh and and you know got a

697
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:29,880
glimpse of what it was and maybe even

698
00:27:33,470 --> 00:27:31,440
went into the files and all this kind of

699
00:27:36,049 --> 00:27:33,480
stuff and had all this great information

700
00:27:38,090 --> 00:27:36,059
and then you even corroborated that to a

701
00:27:40,370 --> 00:27:38,100
certain extent

702
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:40,380
if the president asked you

703
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:43,260
uh where did you get this information

704
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:46,080
and you say well some

705
00:27:51,950 --> 00:27:48,240
some guy or some woman went out on their

706
00:27:54,110 --> 00:27:51,960
silver cord and you know they they just

707
00:27:55,850 --> 00:27:54,120
popped into this place and took a

708
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:55,860
picture with their Mind's Eye and came

709
00:28:00,649 --> 00:27:57,600
back and described it to us

710
00:28:02,450 --> 00:28:00,659
and that's not gonna fly uh and that's

711
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:02,460
not going to fly with anybody and so I

712
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,320
think they realize that

713
00:28:07,970 --> 00:28:06,240
I don't think it went away I think it's

714
00:28:12,250 --> 00:28:07,980
still being looked at

715
00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:12,260
um simply because it it works

716
00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:14,520
everybody does it well but then there

717
00:28:18,110 --> 00:28:16,440
are some people like Ingo Swann and Joe

718
00:28:21,230 --> 00:28:18,120
McGonagall and some of these other ones

719
00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:21,240
who are just absolutely amazing at it

720
00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:25,260
and uh so yeah I mean these old programs

721
00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:26,820
you know it's

722
00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:28,200
they they look like they've gone away

723
00:28:32,029 --> 00:28:29,760
but most of the time they're not because

724
00:28:33,529 --> 00:28:32,039
you can't afford to lose sight of those

725
00:28:35,389 --> 00:28:33,539
particularly if you know that your

726
00:28:37,970 --> 00:28:35,399
adversaries are are still investigating

727
00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:37,980
this you can't allow them to get one up

728
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:40,860
on you so Jim one of the questions that

729
00:28:46,130 --> 00:28:44,640
I I asked a couple of guests is and I'm

730
00:28:48,049 --> 00:28:46,140
really interested in finding out what

731
00:28:49,310 --> 00:28:48,059
you think of this but

732
00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:49,320
um you know we've got these new

733
00:28:52,250 --> 00:28:50,940
committees these new groups that are

734
00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:52,260
supposed to be investigating whenever

735
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:54,000
something happens you know they show up

736
00:28:57,769 --> 00:28:55,679
and they'll do their thing

737
00:28:59,330 --> 00:28:57,779
are they still competing against the

738
00:29:01,070 --> 00:28:59,340
organizations that were sort of

739
00:29:02,690 --> 00:29:01,080
clandestine at the time because you know

740
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:02,700
when you hear about the the tick tock

741
00:29:06,529 --> 00:29:04,320
incidents and stuff like that you're

742
00:29:08,510 --> 00:29:06,539
saying that within 20 minutes uh two

743
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,520
civilian looking guys show up in a

744
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:10,799
helicopter take the the tapes and then

745
00:29:15,289 --> 00:29:12,960
you know take off

746
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:15,299
are they going to be basically butting

747
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:16,559
heads with this or you know

748
00:29:20,269 --> 00:29:18,720
organizations or they sort of you think

749
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:20,279
are going to step back and allow

750
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:22,320
Congress to you know end their own

751
00:29:28,130 --> 00:29:25,200
organization their own uh in

752
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:28,140
basically research to take over or you

753
00:29:32,470 --> 00:29:29,520
think you're still going to have some

754
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:32,480
some issues there

755
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:36,240
I only let me explain it this way

756
00:29:42,289 --> 00:29:38,640
in 1947

757
00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:42,299
and again in 1952 but in 47 the Air

758
00:29:45,649 --> 00:29:43,500
Force

759
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:45,659
made it very very clear

760
00:29:50,149 --> 00:29:48,480
that UFOs were real

761
00:29:52,370 --> 00:29:50,159
and that there was something there that

762
00:29:55,370 --> 00:29:52,380
they couldn't explain and they also said

763
00:29:57,950 --> 00:29:55,380
we're going to study this okay now in

764
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,960
1952 CIA came out and said the same

765
00:30:02,630 --> 00:29:59,760
thing the DCI the director of Central

766
00:30:03,950 --> 00:30:02,640
Intelligence came out and said look we

767
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:03,960
can't explain it we don't think this is

768
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:05,760
a national security threat at all but

769
00:30:10,130 --> 00:30:08,399
clearly something's something's amiss

770
00:30:14,029 --> 00:30:10,140
there's something out there that we

771
00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:14,039
can't explain now the CIA was formed uh

772
00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:16,860
in 1947 because they didn't want to know

773
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:18,360
nobody the United States did not want

774
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:20,880
another Pearl Harbor so the cia's

775
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:23,520
charter basically states that they're

776
00:30:27,950 --> 00:30:25,440
they are supposed to lead the

777
00:30:30,529 --> 00:30:27,960
intelligence community and figuring out

778
00:30:32,690 --> 00:30:30,539
you know very serious problems in other

779
00:30:34,750 --> 00:30:32,700
words you you know whether they're if

780
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:34,760
they're even have a remote

781
00:30:38,389 --> 00:30:36,960
truthfulness about it that's what

782
00:30:40,130 --> 00:30:38,399
they're supposed to do now they can

783
00:30:41,630 --> 00:30:40,140
devote a million dollars to it and they

784
00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:41,640
can afford 100 million dollars to it it

785
00:30:47,090 --> 00:30:44,580
all depends but I I'm assuming here and

786
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:47,100
I'm not gonna you know get into

787
00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:48,960
any more details

788
00:30:54,769 --> 00:30:52,020
that it would have been

789
00:30:56,930 --> 00:30:54,779
it would have been highly unlikely or it

790
00:30:58,909 --> 00:30:56,940
well it is highly unlikely that I am at

791
00:31:01,669 --> 00:30:58,919
the air force of the CIA

792
00:31:03,889 --> 00:31:01,679
have not had

793
00:31:04,850 --> 00:31:03,899
programs going on for the last 70 or 80

794
00:31:06,409 --> 00:31:04,860
years

795
00:31:08,930 --> 00:31:06,419
so

796
00:31:11,149 --> 00:31:08,940
let's just posit that for a second

797
00:31:12,769 --> 00:31:11,159
uh because it would make no sense to me

798
00:31:14,690 --> 00:31:12,779
otherwise particularly if they knew the

799
00:31:16,490 --> 00:31:14,700
Russians had one now we all know the

800
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:16,500
Russians did George Knapp came out you

801
00:31:22,909 --> 00:31:20,159
know in 1991 with red three right and uh

802
00:31:24,529 --> 00:31:22,919
and those were legitimate documents yeah

803
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:24,539
he smuggled him out of Russia so he

804
00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:25,919
knows they're real because he got the

805
00:31:30,169 --> 00:31:28,260
bloody documents right yeah he got it

806
00:31:31,789 --> 00:31:30,179
from the KGB he's never really did I

807
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:31,799
don't think discussed the complete story

808
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:33,360
on that I would love to hear it someday

809
00:31:36,769 --> 00:31:35,279
he did on our show he basically told us

810
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:36,779
the whole thing how he went there and

811
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,120
started bringing him back and he made a

812
00:31:43,310 --> 00:31:41,039
few trips and they he gave it all over

813
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:43,320
to the government and they contacted him

814
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:46,260
after his first book uh I think it had

815
00:31:50,210 --> 00:31:47,519
to do with Skin Walkers or something

816
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:50,220
like that but ever since that he uh he

817
00:31:54,350 --> 00:31:51,840
had been feeding them what he was able

818
00:31:57,529 --> 00:31:54,360
to to scrounge up himself and this is

819
00:31:59,210 --> 00:31:57,539
pre-911 so it's not as big an Espionage

820
00:32:01,370 --> 00:31:59,220
thing as it would be today to do the

821
00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:01,380
same thing you know but exactly exactly

822
00:32:07,610 --> 00:32:04,620
uh but but when you look at examples

823
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:07,620
like that you know it it's like uh in

824
00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:09,919
you know in uh the the realm of

825
00:32:14,690 --> 00:32:12,960
parapsychology or you know or this you

826
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:14,700
know psychic phenomena

827
00:32:20,210 --> 00:32:17,519
if you knew that the Russians were

828
00:32:22,669 --> 00:32:20,220
working on psychokinesis or telepathy in

829
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:22,679
some form and you knew that they're

830
00:32:26,090 --> 00:32:24,240
doing it solely because they want to

831
00:32:28,909 --> 00:32:26,100
weaponize it in some form you know is

832
00:32:31,789 --> 00:32:28,919
the reason why MK Ultra was was there in

833
00:32:34,909 --> 00:32:31,799
CIA in the 60s and 70s you know how

834
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,919
could we how can we use psycho uh uh you

835
00:32:39,889 --> 00:32:36,480
know psychedelics to basically control

836
00:32:42,350 --> 00:32:39,899
the human mind and or can we do that uh

837
00:32:44,750 --> 00:32:42,360
and I think it was resoundingly uh

838
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:44,760
proven that you really can't

839
00:32:51,889 --> 00:32:48,720
um uh and it was an awful awful thing uh

840
00:32:54,769 --> 00:32:51,899
and so glad it went away but uh it

841
00:32:57,289 --> 00:32:54,779
wasn't the cia's finest Hour for by any

842
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:57,299
stretch of the imagination and um but

843
00:33:00,889 --> 00:32:59,760
you can't ignore that you you don't

844
00:33:01,730 --> 00:33:00,899
ignore that

845
00:33:05,930 --> 00:33:01,740
um

846
00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:05,940
if you know

847
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:08,340
that an adversary has a weapon system

848
00:33:12,529 --> 00:33:11,039
and you know pretty much you steal the

849
00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:12,539
information for the weapon system now

850
00:33:15,950 --> 00:33:14,580
you know what it is so you can develop

851
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:15,960
countermeasures

852
00:33:20,029 --> 00:33:18,480
so they find out that you stole that now

853
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:20,039
they do have countermeasures to your

854
00:33:23,930 --> 00:33:21,600
counter measures now you have to steal

855
00:33:27,649 --> 00:33:23,940
that and this is this is how this is how

856
00:33:30,169 --> 00:33:27,659
this works and it never ends it goes on

857
00:33:30,830 --> 00:33:30,179
like this all the time so imagine you

858
00:33:34,130 --> 00:33:30,840
know

859
00:33:36,350 --> 00:33:34,140
UFO activity uh particularly over uh

860
00:33:38,110 --> 00:33:36,360
sensitive nuclear sites

861
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:38,120
the you know

862
00:33:43,549 --> 00:33:41,279
despite what what was said in the 50s

863
00:33:45,409 --> 00:33:43,559
60s and 70s by the Air Force and the

864
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,419
intelligence Community about UFOs and

865
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:47,760
what the terrible the thing you know

866
00:33:52,669 --> 00:33:50,880
that the uh DOD I think in the IC did

867
00:33:54,289 --> 00:33:52,679
the people who witnessed this and

868
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:54,299
basically made them look like idiots and

869
00:33:59,149 --> 00:33:57,840
fools that was an awful thing uh and uh

870
00:34:01,610 --> 00:33:59,159
because these people were telling the

871
00:34:03,049 --> 00:34:01,620
truth yeah and and then and they and the

872
00:34:05,930 --> 00:34:03,059
military knew it was the truth

873
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:05,940
absolutely no it was the truth uh but

874
00:34:10,909 --> 00:34:07,980
they were they were afraid they were

875
00:34:13,250 --> 00:34:10,919
afraid to to draw any attention to it

876
00:34:15,649 --> 00:34:13,260
whatsoever they did not want the Air

877
00:34:16,849 --> 00:34:15,659
Force did not want nor the CIA one and

878
00:34:19,069 --> 00:34:16,859
they'd come out and said this we didn't

879
00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:19,079
want any attention we didn't want people

880
00:34:22,430 --> 00:34:20,700
to get all excited about this because we

881
00:34:24,109 --> 00:34:22,440
didn't know how to answer it this goes

882
00:34:25,490 --> 00:34:24,119
back to the you know the idea of UFOs

883
00:34:27,950 --> 00:34:25,500
and sovereignty that wonderful paper

884
00:34:28,909 --> 00:34:27,960
that was written by Alexander went and I

885
00:34:31,069 --> 00:34:28,919
can't remember the other fellow's name

886
00:34:33,230 --> 00:34:31,079
and from Ohio State

887
00:34:35,149 --> 00:34:33,240
it's uh you know if you haven't read it

888
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:35,159
it's it's well worth reading and uh

889
00:34:39,530 --> 00:34:37,440
because what do you do if you're the

890
00:34:40,970 --> 00:34:39,540
president of the United States uh or the

891
00:34:43,609 --> 00:34:40,980
chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

892
00:34:45,409 --> 00:34:43,619
and your main goal is the protection of

893
00:34:47,149 --> 00:34:45,419
the people of the United States and

894
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:47,159
someone comes up to you and you have

895
00:34:50,990 --> 00:34:48,960
information that basically you can't

896
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:51,000
explain yes there are things in this

897
00:34:57,170 --> 00:34:53,760
world or of this world or around this

898
00:34:59,569 --> 00:34:57,180
world that can interfere you know with

899
00:35:02,270 --> 00:34:59,579
our one of the try I can interfere with

900
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:02,280
all three parts of the Triad you know of

901
00:35:08,329 --> 00:35:05,280
nuclear defense and can shut it down at

902
00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:08,339
will and or you know show up at these

903
00:35:13,849 --> 00:35:10,200
places at will and we can't do anything

904
00:35:17,690 --> 00:35:13,859
about it yeah you can't defend

905
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:17,700
the people so is the president supposed

906
00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:19,680
to come out and actually admit that yeah

907
00:35:25,730 --> 00:35:22,260
uh and I think there was a lot of

908
00:35:28,849 --> 00:35:25,740
discussion that was going on in the 60s

909
00:35:31,849 --> 00:35:28,859
up until probably the 90s and if not

910
00:35:34,490 --> 00:35:31,859
later uh on this topic what do you say

911
00:35:35,870 --> 00:35:34,500
what do you say to the public about this

912
00:35:37,970 --> 00:35:35,880
and um

913
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:37,980
yeah go ahead yeah I was gonna say it's

914
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:40,079
interesting because you know here we are

915
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:42,960
on you know the civilians thinking what

916
00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:45,119
does the CIA know about this what does

917
00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:47,400
the the you know Department of Defense

918
00:35:50,990 --> 00:35:49,260
know about this and you guys are

919
00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:51,000
experiencers as well I mean you

920
00:35:56,990 --> 00:35:53,640
experienced something while you were

921
00:35:59,870 --> 00:35:57,000
and that hired by yeah you were with the

922
00:36:02,690 --> 00:35:59,880
CIA and you experienced something and

923
00:36:04,250 --> 00:36:02,700
that to me is is huge that is uh you

924
00:36:05,569 --> 00:36:04,260
know part of the disclosure as far as

925
00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:05,579
I'm concerned is people from the

926
00:36:11,329 --> 00:36:08,640
military and the uh interior defense you

927
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:11,339
know CIA coming out and saying you know

928
00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:13,260
what yeah this stuff happens to us too

929
00:36:17,870 --> 00:36:15,540
we don't know how to handle this

930
00:36:20,030 --> 00:36:17,880
um a mutual friend of ours once I asked

931
00:36:21,470 --> 00:36:20,040
him is said you know is there really a

932
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:21,480
threat narrative here

933
00:36:26,329 --> 00:36:23,760
because we've talked to people that have

934
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:26,339
had experiences with these entities and

935
00:36:30,589 --> 00:36:27,839
they seem quite

936
00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:30,599
happy with the results of the experience

937
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:32,460
or they got tucked in back into bed

938
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:34,800
While others have a more traumatic

939
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:36,480
experience

940
00:36:41,450 --> 00:36:39,119
um but when it comes down to it you know

941
00:36:42,829 --> 00:36:41,460
people are take being taken at night and

942
00:36:44,690 --> 00:36:42,839
there's you know there's nothing really

943
00:36:47,390 --> 00:36:44,700
or during the day depends on the

944
00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:47,400
scenario and story you hear but there's

945
00:36:51,410 --> 00:36:49,260
nothing really that anybody can do about

946
00:36:53,089 --> 00:36:51,420
it like you can't send Jets out to

947
00:36:55,849 --> 00:36:53,099
intercept you can't even pick them up on

948
00:36:57,710 --> 00:36:55,859
radar do you think there's a threat

949
00:37:00,109 --> 00:36:57,720
narrative to this like from your

950
00:37:00,650 --> 00:37:00,119
experience

951
00:37:03,170 --> 00:37:00,660
um

952
00:37:05,690 --> 00:37:03,180
I I you know this is one of the hits

953
00:37:06,650 --> 00:37:05,700
that ttsa took very early on that we

954
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:06,660
were

955
00:37:12,829 --> 00:37:09,599
somehow propounding this theory that um

956
00:37:14,930 --> 00:37:12,839
you know that this that the um the

957
00:37:17,210 --> 00:37:14,940
phenomenon itself or uaps in the

958
00:37:18,650 --> 00:37:17,220
self-worth threat and we really weren't

959
00:37:20,810 --> 00:37:18,660
saying that at all what we were saying

960
00:37:23,690 --> 00:37:20,820
and we still continue to say and I I

961
00:37:26,210 --> 00:37:23,700
still continue to believe is that as a

962
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:26,220
national security issue we have to view

963
00:37:29,390 --> 00:37:27,839
it as a threat until we understand what

964
00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:29,400
it is

965
00:37:34,010 --> 00:37:31,140
um or we have to view it as a Potential

966
00:37:37,069 --> 00:37:34,020
Threat until we know what it is now is

967
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:37,079
it a threat an existential threat no I I

968
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:38,880
I I don't think so at all it's been

969
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:41,520
around for over 2 000 years in recorded

970
00:37:44,750 --> 00:37:43,680
history nothing's nothing too serious

971
00:37:46,430 --> 00:37:44,760
have happened I mean people have gone

972
00:37:47,329 --> 00:37:46,440
missing

973
00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:47,339
um

974
00:37:50,930 --> 00:37:49,260
people have gotten sick

975
00:37:53,569 --> 00:37:50,940
you know I was part of it I still am

976
00:37:56,569 --> 00:37:53,579
part of a cohort group uh you know and

977
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:56,579
started five or six years ago

978
00:37:59,089 --> 00:37:57,359
um

979
00:38:01,609 --> 00:37:59,099
actually a little bit longer than that

980
00:38:03,710 --> 00:38:01,619
uh we're studying the effects

981
00:38:05,870 --> 00:38:03,720
of people's experiences with the

982
00:38:07,730 --> 00:38:05,880
phenomenon and it was mostly relegated

983
00:38:10,190 --> 00:38:07,740
to senior

984
00:38:12,170 --> 00:38:10,200
please government officials I don't want

985
00:38:14,750 --> 00:38:12,180
to get too much detail about this a lot

986
00:38:18,109 --> 00:38:14,760
of it is HIPAA restricted and um but I

987
00:38:20,089 --> 00:38:18,119
saw the saw the uh

988
00:38:21,710 --> 00:38:20,099
PowerPoints on this and what happens to

989
00:38:23,329 --> 00:38:21,720
people that run into this this was

990
00:38:25,010 --> 00:38:23,339
talked about in the skinwalker books

991
00:38:28,490 --> 00:38:25,020
quite a bit

992
00:38:31,069 --> 00:38:28,500
um and so people do do get harmed uh by

993
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:31,079
it I I viewed what happened to me and my

994
00:38:34,849 --> 00:38:32,640
wife as a um

995
00:38:38,770 --> 00:38:34,859
uh human rights violation of the highest

996
00:38:42,410 --> 00:38:38,780
order uh you know if it it hurt my wife

997
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,420
and um it did physical I mean didn't do

998
00:38:46,849 --> 00:38:43,920
physical damage well I had physical

999
00:38:48,589 --> 00:38:46,859
damage but I I didn't seem to affect me

1000
00:38:49,870 --> 00:38:48,599
I mean you know um over the long term I

1001
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:49,880
was I was fine

1002
00:38:55,130 --> 00:38:54,240
uh uh according to well as far as I know

1003
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:55,140
um

1004
00:39:00,410 --> 00:38:57,119
uh but nevertheless

1005
00:39:04,250 --> 00:39:01,130
um

1006
00:39:07,010 --> 00:39:04,260
any uh you know special knowledge uh I

1007
00:39:10,010 --> 00:39:07,020
didn't become a nicer Kinder person I

1008
00:39:13,069 --> 00:39:10,020
always had it very open Outlook so to me

1009
00:39:16,190 --> 00:39:13,079
I was sort of mad and I still am to you

1010
00:39:18,770 --> 00:39:16,200
know to a little act to a greater extent

1011
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:18,780
the hell are you doing you know what the

1012
00:39:23,390 --> 00:39:21,540
hell did I do what did I do to you and

1013
00:39:27,530 --> 00:39:23,400
and why did you do that why did you harm

1014
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:27,540
harm my wife and uh you know and I I

1015
00:39:32,329 --> 00:39:29,760
have I don't have a satisfa satisfaction

1016
00:39:33,770 --> 00:39:32,339
satisfactory explanation for that uh now

1017
00:39:35,390 --> 00:39:33,780
you got one of my dear friends Chris

1018
00:39:36,770 --> 00:39:35,400
Bledsoe and I always mentioned him

1019
00:39:39,770 --> 00:39:36,780
because I just think he's about as the

1020
00:39:41,630 --> 00:39:39,780
real deal as you can possibly get

1021
00:39:43,790 --> 00:39:41,640
um you know met him numerous times her

1022
00:39:47,930 --> 00:39:43,800
his story in great detail

1023
00:39:51,230 --> 00:39:47,940
and here is the almost the the opposite

1024
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:51,240
of my experience extremely terrifying

1025
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:52,320
for him

1026
00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:54,720
and his son in the beginning and the

1027
00:39:56,810 --> 00:39:55,680
people that were with him in the

1028
00:39:59,690 --> 00:39:56,820
beginning

1029
00:40:01,970 --> 00:39:59,700
took an enormous toll on him both him

1030
00:40:03,410 --> 00:40:01,980
and his family and his wonderful family

1031
00:40:06,290 --> 00:40:03,420
I mean you

1032
00:40:07,970 --> 00:40:06,300
really if you had to describe the

1033
00:40:10,309 --> 00:40:07,980
quintessential loving family that's the

1034
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:10,319
Bledsoe family they are just wonderful

1035
00:40:14,569 --> 00:40:11,280
people

1036
00:40:16,910 --> 00:40:14,579
and you look at him and what he went

1037
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:16,920
through and then how this has turned out

1038
00:40:20,750 --> 00:40:19,200
for him is is

1039
00:40:25,130 --> 00:40:20,760
um really

1040
00:40:27,710 --> 00:40:25,140
wonderful he you know he's he's a Healer

1041
00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:27,720
um he has a completely rejiggered view

1042
00:40:32,990 --> 00:40:30,780
of reality and spirituality and

1043
00:40:34,970 --> 00:40:33,000
um um and he said if he ever talk to him

1044
00:40:37,609 --> 00:40:34,980
he's just uh just a wonderful wonderful

1045
00:40:39,710 --> 00:40:37,619
loving compassionate kind man and it

1046
00:40:41,150 --> 00:40:39,720
really did change him it changed him he

1047
00:40:42,170 --> 00:40:41,160
thinks too for the better I don't know

1048
00:40:43,609 --> 00:40:42,180
if he could have gotten any better than

1049
00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:43,619
he was before because he was always that

1050
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:46,380
way people who knew him but nevertheless

1051
00:40:49,490 --> 00:40:48,000
um he he had also a physical

1052
00:40:52,010 --> 00:40:49,500
rejuvenation

1053
00:40:53,870 --> 00:40:52,020
yeah Crohn's disease and he got cured of

1054
00:40:55,010 --> 00:40:53,880
that uh that doesn't mean he's going to

1055
00:40:56,690 --> 00:40:55,020
live forever and he doesn't have other

1056
00:40:58,190 --> 00:40:56,700
uh you know other physical issues but

1057
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:58,200
nevertheless

1058
00:41:03,170 --> 00:41:00,960
so I I don't know I mean you know it's

1059
00:41:05,750 --> 00:41:03,180
when you talk to George you know and

1060
00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:05,760
calm Kelleher and you know and Bigelow

1061
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:07,500
and these guys and

1062
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:09,599
and even and Lou will tell you too I

1063
00:41:16,510 --> 00:41:12,480
mean you have it's if you go looking for

1064
00:41:18,890 --> 00:41:16,520
it and you walk into it's it's

1065
00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:18,900
Lair you know or wherever the hell it's

1066
00:41:24,770 --> 00:41:20,760
there

1067
00:41:26,569 --> 00:41:24,780
but if you're walking into it you're

1068
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:26,579
gonna get harmed and this is what the

1069
00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:28,560
problem with the hitchhiker effect is

1070
00:41:33,890 --> 00:41:30,720
so I mean I look at that and you look at

1071
00:41:35,569 --> 00:41:33,900
Axelrod you know the guy Axelrod I I

1072
00:41:37,970 --> 00:41:35,579
he's a great guy and I know him very

1073
00:41:40,490 --> 00:41:39,470
but you know you look at what it did to

1074
00:41:43,730 --> 00:41:40,500
his family

1075
00:41:46,250 --> 00:41:43,740
and uh a lot of it's been publicized

1076
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:46,260
that a lot of it hasn't either

1077
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:48,480
and um he

1078
00:41:51,710 --> 00:41:50,040
um I mean scaring his children with the

1079
00:41:53,569 --> 00:41:51,720
you know the tall wolf you know on the

1080
00:41:56,270 --> 00:41:53,579
hind legs and all this kind of stuff and

1081
00:42:00,349 --> 00:41:56,280
it's don't see I mean what I see there

1082
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:00,359
is that is that that you know

1083
00:42:05,390 --> 00:42:02,640
proverbial trickster element that you'd

1084
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,400
get to it you know it has to do with uh

1085
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:07,440
you know dymonic reality in general

1086
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:09,359
there's always been a trickster element

1087
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:12,240
to it it lies to you just like the gods

1088
00:42:16,609 --> 00:42:14,640
quote unquote lie to you and teased you

1089
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:16,619
and you get that in the Bible all

1090
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:18,720
throughout the Bible

1091
00:42:23,930 --> 00:42:21,359
uh so there's an element there of

1092
00:42:26,829 --> 00:42:23,940
um of trickery and deceit

1093
00:42:29,390 --> 00:42:26,839
uh there's an element there of

1094
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:29,400
compassion understanding

1095
00:42:34,670 --> 00:42:31,440
um and there's an element there a much

1096
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:34,680
much smaller element I think of evil uh

1097
00:42:38,210 --> 00:42:35,520
or

1098
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:38,220
what we would consider evil uh from our

1099
00:42:43,250 --> 00:42:41,520
anthropomorphic point of view uh but

1100
00:42:46,609 --> 00:42:43,260
maybe to them it isn't I I don't know

1101
00:42:48,829 --> 00:42:46,619
it's just it just you know you know it

1102
00:42:50,809 --> 00:42:48,839
was Whitley strieber described it as

1103
00:42:52,670 --> 00:42:50,819
walking through a forest of hypotheses

1104
00:42:53,809 --> 00:42:52,680
you know you know you don't know where

1105
00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:53,819
the hell you are I mean you're walking

1106
00:42:57,650 --> 00:42:55,680
through it oh it's this oh it's not you

1107
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:57,660
know and I don't know it's the same with

1108
00:43:02,030 --> 00:42:59,760
the UAP topic everybody unfortunately

1109
00:43:04,130 --> 00:43:02,040
gets an equal plate at the table because

1110
00:43:06,770 --> 00:43:04,140
nobody has definitive proof nobody has

1111
00:43:08,809 --> 00:43:06,780
anything that hasn't been Beat to Death

1112
00:43:12,010 --> 00:43:08,819
as well maybe it's this or maybe it's

1113
00:43:14,990 --> 00:43:12,020
that so until something solid comes out

1114
00:43:17,210 --> 00:43:15,000
everybody's opinion has equal value I

1115
00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:17,220
mean like we tend to have our our own

1116
00:43:22,010 --> 00:43:19,440
favorites of where we side in our own

1117
00:43:24,829 --> 00:43:22,020
independent bias but really you know

1118
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:24,839
crazy or not we don't know and nobody

1119
00:43:30,829 --> 00:43:28,079
knows for sure anyway yeah and uh the

1120
00:43:32,690 --> 00:43:30,839
the only thing I I don't care for is uh

1121
00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:32,700
you know on this topic is one of the

1122
00:43:37,550 --> 00:43:34,140
reasons I try to stay away from

1123
00:43:39,050 --> 00:43:37,560
symposiums and conferences is um

1124
00:43:40,370 --> 00:43:39,060
although some of them are getting better

1125
00:43:42,109 --> 00:43:40,380
is

1126
00:43:43,730 --> 00:43:42,119
the amount of people that that are there

1127
00:43:45,530 --> 00:43:43,740
that are speakers there you can have

1128
00:43:48,290 --> 00:43:45,540
maybe three or four speakers that I

1129
00:43:49,790 --> 00:43:48,300
think really have some solid foundations

1130
00:43:52,190 --> 00:43:49,800
and then you can have three or four or

1131
00:43:54,589 --> 00:43:52,200
five of them that are just

1132
00:43:56,089 --> 00:43:54,599
um you know I and again and not I don't

1133
00:43:58,190 --> 00:43:56,099
want to criticize them simply because

1134
00:44:01,430 --> 00:43:58,200
like you said Lou yeah I I don't know

1135
00:44:04,750 --> 00:44:01,440
either but if you come out and you tell

1136
00:44:07,069 --> 00:44:04,760
me that you know yeah that's a problem

1137
00:44:09,170 --> 00:44:07,079
now I have a hard time with that because

1138
00:44:10,490 --> 00:44:09,180
you don't know this is real well you

1139
00:44:13,849 --> 00:44:10,500
don't know what's real and what the

1140
00:44:16,490 --> 00:44:13,859
ultimate intentions are or exactly what

1141
00:44:19,010 --> 00:44:16,500
they are or where they come from and I I

1142
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:19,020
I think um it's like the government and

1143
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:21,599
disclosure I mean the hell are we I'm

1144
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:22,800
not waiting for the government to come

1145
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:24,240
out with anything I I mean the

1146
00:44:27,290 --> 00:44:25,440
government doesn't own this the

1147
00:44:29,450 --> 00:44:27,300
government is has this one narrow look

1148
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,460
at this and that's National Defense

1149
00:44:32,329 --> 00:44:30,960
that's all it cares about doesn't care

1150
00:44:35,210 --> 00:44:32,339
about anything else they're not going to

1151
00:44:37,130 --> 00:44:35,220
start a UFO philosophy Institute or you

1152
00:44:38,510 --> 00:44:37,140
know you know you know or anything like

1153
00:44:40,010 --> 00:44:38,520
that you know like the world peace

1154
00:44:41,390 --> 00:44:40,020
Foundation it's not going to happen it's

1155
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:41,400
going to happen privately if it happens

1156
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:43,920
at all it should happen privately

1157
00:44:48,109 --> 00:44:46,800
and I don't know why it hasn't we've

1158
00:44:49,490 --> 00:44:48,119
been trying to get enough you know

1159
00:44:51,530 --> 00:44:49,500
benefactors to come in and actually

1160
00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:51,540
create an organization where you can

1161
00:44:55,069 --> 00:44:53,220
actually look at this it happens to

1162
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:55,079
everybody around the world

1163
00:44:58,849 --> 00:44:57,720
it happens to Ordinary People normal

1164
00:45:01,010 --> 00:44:58,859
people

1165
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:01,020
not just the military and Intelligence

1166
00:45:06,349 --> 00:45:03,599
Officers or military installations it

1167
00:45:08,210 --> 00:45:06,359
happens more more so you know with the

1168
00:45:10,010 --> 00:45:08,220
general population

1169
00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:10,020
but we haven't been able to pull

1170
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:12,000
together I think we're just disparate

1171
00:45:15,710 --> 00:45:14,160
roads everybody's going down and or

1172
00:45:17,930 --> 00:45:15,720
everybody's trying to do it I mean you

1173
00:45:20,690 --> 00:45:17,940
know Abby Lowe you know is doing his

1174
00:45:24,349 --> 00:45:20,700
Galileo project I know Stephen Greer has

1175
00:45:26,089 --> 00:45:24,359
his own project and NASA yeah NASA's

1176
00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:26,099
steady and all this kind of stuff and

1177
00:45:29,450 --> 00:45:27,720
you know they're all sort of in the end

1178
00:45:31,010 --> 00:45:29,460
you know looking sort of at the same

1179
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:31,020
thing trying to figure out what this is

1180
00:45:36,050 --> 00:45:33,839
some have their preconceived notions uh

1181
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:36,060
about what it may be but I think we need

1182
00:45:40,069 --> 00:45:39,119
something that's a lot more

1183
00:45:41,870 --> 00:45:40,079
um

1184
00:45:44,089 --> 00:45:41,880
it has a lot more academic disciplines

1185
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:44,099
associated with it we need religious

1186
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:45,599
Scholars we need you know social

1187
00:45:49,550 --> 00:45:47,280
psychologists We need regular

1188
00:45:51,770 --> 00:45:49,560
psychologists we need when a regular

1189
00:45:53,569 --> 00:45:51,780
psychologists clinical psychologists uh

1190
00:45:55,849 --> 00:45:53,579
you know we need physicists um we need

1191
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:55,859
anthropologists

1192
00:46:01,550 --> 00:45:58,079
um sociologists to actually be looking

1193
00:46:03,770 --> 00:46:01,560
at this together trained observers thank

1194
00:46:06,050 --> 00:46:03,780
you and trained observers and somebody

1195
00:46:08,510 --> 00:46:06,060
with a Zen mind you know somebody with a

1196
00:46:09,890 --> 00:46:08,520
clear mind that doesn't know a damn

1197
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:09,900
thing about this you throw them in

1198
00:46:14,690 --> 00:46:12,240
because we need perspectives we need

1199
00:46:16,730 --> 00:46:14,700
women we need men you know meet the

1200
00:46:19,250 --> 00:46:16,740
Dalai Lama to help us figure this out he

1201
00:46:20,930 --> 00:46:19,260
could do it I'm sure he may be able to I

1202
00:46:22,730 --> 00:46:20,940
don't know he meditate once and he'd

1203
00:46:25,010 --> 00:46:22,740
tell us everything we need to know well

1204
00:46:26,510 --> 00:46:25,020
he he's he mentioned this a few times

1205
00:46:28,490 --> 00:46:26,520
and he said oh yeah don't don't don't

1206
00:46:29,930 --> 00:46:28,500
worry about them they're just pesky you

1207
00:46:32,270 --> 00:46:29,940
know they're just they just bother you

1208
00:46:34,010 --> 00:46:32,280
to try to take you away and you know and

1209
00:46:34,609 --> 00:46:34,020
I I I

1210
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:34,619
um

1211
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:37,200
I'm a big fan of uh you know the two

1212
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:39,599
people I follow and probably religiously

1213
00:46:44,210 --> 00:46:42,000
on this are um

1214
00:46:45,770 --> 00:46:44,220
well actually three that I consider

1215
00:46:48,050 --> 00:46:45,780
really well more than that actually

1216
00:46:50,270 --> 00:46:48,060
about a dozen but my my top three are

1217
00:46:53,450 --> 00:46:50,280
always going to be jock valet yeah and

1218
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:53,460
then Jonathan Keel or John keel

1219
00:46:58,609 --> 00:46:56,640
and um and lately as of late Jeff

1220
00:47:00,829 --> 00:46:58,619
[\h__\h] Dr Jeff crepel from Rice

1221
00:47:03,050 --> 00:47:00,839
University religious scholar I I and

1222
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:03,060
then Whitley Streeper too

1223
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:06,540
these these uh guys and and how I mean

1224
00:47:10,130 --> 00:47:08,640
you can sort of start naming them steric

1225
00:47:12,290 --> 00:47:10,140
uh Bullard

1226
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:12,300
these are the guys I think that that

1227
00:47:17,870 --> 00:47:15,119
really seriously thought about this and

1228
00:47:20,329 --> 00:47:17,880
um uh are looking at it

1229
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:20,339
from the perspective of uh you know what

1230
00:47:26,030 --> 00:47:23,760
it might be and I

1231
00:47:28,670 --> 00:47:26,040
you know if I had if I come to any kind

1232
00:47:32,030 --> 00:47:30,410
conclusions lately and not even

1233
00:47:34,010 --> 00:47:32,040
conclusions just my own personal

1234
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,020
feelings and this would probably change

1235
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:36,240
next week by the way because it seems to

1236
00:47:41,630 --> 00:47:39,359
always do that is this phenomena reminds

1237
00:47:42,530 --> 00:47:41,640
me more or less of the Gin you know uh

1238
00:47:44,569 --> 00:47:42,540
and

1239
00:47:46,730 --> 00:47:44,579
um because they're no known for that

1240
00:47:49,490 --> 00:47:46,740
trickster element they're also known to

1241
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:49,500
be you know kind loving you know uh

1242
00:47:53,690 --> 00:47:52,559
spirit beings or plasma beings and what

1243
00:47:55,370 --> 00:47:53,700
happened but they're also known to be

1244
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:55,380
sort of like us right they sort of share

1245
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:57,839
our our different emotional

1246
00:48:02,329 --> 00:48:01,200
um uh wavelengths and what have you so

1247
00:48:04,670 --> 00:48:02,339
um

1248
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:04,680
I don't know there's so many different

1249
00:48:09,410 --> 00:48:07,200
variations and possibilities in this

1250
00:48:11,390 --> 00:48:09,420
field it's unreal I

1251
00:48:14,210 --> 00:48:11,400
you know when we originally started the

1252
00:48:16,250 --> 00:48:14,220
podcast I had my mindset nope this is

1253
00:48:18,349 --> 00:48:16,260
real this is what I'm going to focus on

1254
00:48:20,930 --> 00:48:18,359
and the more I talk to people the more I

1255
00:48:23,089 --> 00:48:20,940
realize that I know nothing about this

1256
00:48:26,270 --> 00:48:23,099
phenomenon it just keeps getting crazier

1257
00:48:28,849 --> 00:48:26,280
and crazier for for your experience that

1258
00:48:31,790 --> 00:48:28,859
you had we don't need to get into it but

1259
00:48:33,770 --> 00:48:31,800
um basically was that a one-off for you

1260
00:48:36,290 --> 00:48:33,780
and your wife was is it something that

1261
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:36,300
like you think might reoccurred or is

1262
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:39,359
this a one-time thing and did you

1263
00:48:43,730 --> 00:48:41,760
remember all the event or did you have

1264
00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:43,740
to basically let everybody else go

1265
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:45,599
through therapy to get the whole

1266
00:48:48,770 --> 00:48:47,040
information

1267
00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:48,780
yeah it's a good question

1268
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:51,720
um it wasn't necessarily a one-off

1269
00:48:58,130 --> 00:48:56,160
um uh uh my wife his family has a

1270
00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:58,140
history of

1271
00:49:02,990 --> 00:49:00,240
um

1272
00:49:04,849 --> 00:49:03,000
associating associations with this

1273
00:49:07,849 --> 00:49:04,859
phenomenon without getting into too

1274
00:49:09,530 --> 00:49:07,859
detail her mother my wife's mother uh

1275
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:09,540
and some of the some of her relatives

1276
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:12,720
are familiar with this phenomenon right

1277
00:49:16,730 --> 00:49:15,839
we'll leave it at that on my side

1278
00:49:19,849 --> 00:49:16,740
um

1279
00:49:21,410 --> 00:49:19,859
my mother my mother was Italian and you

1280
00:49:23,510 --> 00:49:21,420
know Italian-American but nevertheless

1281
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:23,520
you know she spoke Italian fluently I'm

1282
00:49:27,530 --> 00:49:24,960
first generation

1283
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:27,540
and I'm second generation I should say

1284
00:49:33,470 --> 00:49:31,200
and and but she had a uh a psychic

1285
00:49:35,390 --> 00:49:33,480
ability and an ability where she was

1286
00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:35,400
able you know um you know she would

1287
00:49:38,270 --> 00:49:37,140
speak with my dead grandfather for

1288
00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:38,280
instance you know either on the

1289
00:49:42,530 --> 00:49:39,900
telephone or sometimes in conversations

1290
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:42,540
my father would catch her in night you

1291
00:49:47,630 --> 00:49:45,119
know in Italian if you can imagine that

1292
00:49:50,210 --> 00:49:47,640
right so there's a little bit of that

1293
00:49:52,549 --> 00:49:50,220
um I uh but

1294
00:49:55,790 --> 00:49:52,559
my wife and I when we got married we

1295
00:49:57,290 --> 00:49:55,800
moved into um a few years after we moved

1296
00:49:59,450 --> 00:49:57,300
to Virginia

1297
00:50:01,910 --> 00:49:59,460
bought a house in 1990 and it was

1298
00:50:04,130 --> 00:50:01,920
situated on a uh old Civil War

1299
00:50:07,730 --> 00:50:04,140
encampment and previous to that in a

1300
00:50:10,849 --> 00:50:07,740
Native American encampment and um but we

1301
00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:10,859
clearly had Poltergeist in the house and

1302
00:50:14,690 --> 00:50:12,780
um my wife and I are both open-minded

1303
00:50:16,190 --> 00:50:14,700
and you know sort of fun let me get

1304
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:16,200
amiable we never never had kids or

1305
00:50:20,210 --> 00:50:17,280
anything like that my wife's a

1306
00:50:22,250 --> 00:50:20,220
psychologist and to her you know we we

1307
00:50:22,910 --> 00:50:22,260
just we just sort of said well okay you

1308
00:50:29,569 --> 00:50:22,920
know

1309
00:50:31,849 --> 00:50:29,579
the bedroom at night and the footsteps

1310
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:31,859
start and then toilets flush and you

1311
00:50:36,049 --> 00:50:33,359
know and all this kind of stuff and

1312
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:36,059
initially we put it throughout the house

1313
00:50:39,950 --> 00:50:38,400
is all built in 54 and but then

1314
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:39,960
afterwards it was it was getting to be

1315
00:50:42,650 --> 00:50:41,520
ridiculous I mean you know we would come

1316
00:50:43,849 --> 00:50:42,660
home I'll pick her up from the year she

1317
00:50:45,290 --> 00:50:43,859
traveled a lot pick her up in the

1318
00:50:47,210 --> 00:50:45,300
airport her slippers would be dangling

1319
00:50:49,309 --> 00:50:47,220
on on the stairs going in the bedroom

1320
00:50:51,710 --> 00:50:49,319
high chair as hell didn't do it and she

1321
00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:51,720
had been gone for a week so

1322
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:53,520
uh yeah you don't know what to make of

1323
00:50:58,970 --> 00:50:57,119
it and um and she had a we uh she had we

1324
00:51:00,710 --> 00:50:58,980
both did had a couple experiences with

1325
00:51:02,809 --> 00:51:00,720
this Poltergeist activity which was not

1326
00:51:05,450 --> 00:51:02,819
uh bad at all it was actually very

1327
00:51:07,250 --> 00:51:05,460
touching and tender uh when we found out

1328
00:51:09,950 --> 00:51:07,260
more of the history of the people that

1329
00:51:12,170 --> 00:51:09,960
lived in the mouse before we did and uh

1330
00:51:14,809 --> 00:51:12,180
but uh and then this thing happened to

1331
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:14,819
us uh

1332
00:51:18,829 --> 00:51:17,040
and

1333
00:51:20,630 --> 00:51:18,839
my wife doesn't remember anything of it

1334
00:51:22,690 --> 00:51:20,640
except the aftermath

1335
00:51:26,270 --> 00:51:22,700
um I uh

1336
00:51:29,809 --> 00:51:26,280
remembered vividly uh the initial part

1337
00:51:31,250 --> 00:51:29,819
of it in full Technicolor uh I wasn't on

1338
00:51:34,190 --> 00:51:31,260
a ship or anything like that it was just

1339
00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:34,200
all you know is in my bedroom in my

1340
00:51:38,030 --> 00:51:36,300
house and then outside of the house and

1341
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:38,040
then there were Snippets you know like

1342
00:51:44,690 --> 00:51:42,000
video clips you know up this very very

1343
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:47,630
real I it was it was as real as me

1344
00:51:53,690 --> 00:51:50,160
talking to you uh however real that is

1345
00:51:55,250 --> 00:51:53,700
right and uh so to me it was not um I

1346
00:51:57,770 --> 00:51:55,260
mean I know what hit nagogic states are

1347
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:57,780
and I know what liminal states are and

1348
00:52:05,270 --> 00:52:00,960
uh I had experiences you know the mayor

1349
00:52:09,530 --> 00:52:07,910
so I knew this was uh you know it's

1350
00:52:12,410 --> 00:52:09,540
about a real event as I could possibly

1351
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:12,420
know what real means and uh it was later

1352
00:52:15,710 --> 00:52:14,280
on too I also found out that other

1353
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:15,720
friends of mine in the intelligence

1354
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:17,520
Community went through this similar

1355
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:21,680
stuff oh wow uh so uh but

1356
00:52:27,290 --> 00:52:24,480
after all that happened

1357
00:52:29,569 --> 00:52:27,300
um I did have my last experience was

1358
00:52:31,609 --> 00:52:29,579
probably three years ago

1359
00:52:33,230 --> 00:52:31,619
four years ago I can't remember the

1360
00:52:35,329 --> 00:52:33,240
exact date when

1361
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:35,339
the best man in my wedding was the

1362
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:38,160
director of public affairs uh Becca we

1363
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:41,280
were very young officers in CIA uh Mark

1364
00:52:46,010 --> 00:52:44,400
Mansfield a wonderful Guy and um he was

1365
00:52:48,770 --> 00:52:46,020
very sick and he was down in Miami

1366
00:52:50,690 --> 00:52:48,780
teaching uh for the CIA teaching a

1367
00:52:52,730 --> 00:52:50,700
course at University of Miami

1368
00:52:54,109 --> 00:52:52,740
and but he was very sick and we were

1369
00:52:55,849 --> 00:52:54,119
going to go down there to see him the

1370
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,859
next day to

1371
00:52:58,910 --> 00:52:57,599
because he had just been admitted to the

1372
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:58,920
hospital and we knew he wasn't going to

1373
00:53:01,549 --> 00:52:59,760
make it

1374
00:53:03,170 --> 00:53:01,559
and um

1375
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:03,180
that night

1376
00:53:06,589 --> 00:53:04,559
um well that morning I should say about

1377
00:53:08,329 --> 00:53:06,599
two in the morning you know as men of my

1378
00:53:09,530 --> 00:53:08,339
age usually do we gotta I gotta have to

1379
00:53:12,170 --> 00:53:09,540
go to the bathroom

1380
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:12,180
and uh I um

1381
00:53:17,870 --> 00:53:15,359
uh went back into bed and and while I

1382
00:53:19,609 --> 00:53:17,880
was gone my wife stole all my covers so

1383
00:53:21,230 --> 00:53:19,619
I'm sitting in the bed and I'm moving

1384
00:53:23,150 --> 00:53:21,240
the covers around you know and grumbling

1385
00:53:24,370 --> 00:53:23,160
a little bit and totally wide awake and

1386
00:53:27,470 --> 00:53:24,380
all of a sudden

1387
00:53:30,049 --> 00:53:27,480
through the bedroom wall there was a

1388
00:53:32,809 --> 00:53:30,059
window there but right sort of next to

1389
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:32,819
the window this black

1390
00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:36,480
I don't know a thing came through and uh

1391
00:53:41,390 --> 00:53:38,760
now I'm one of the biggest Scaredy Cats

1392
00:53:43,010 --> 00:53:41,400
known to man I mean I'm frightened by

1393
00:53:45,230 --> 00:53:43,020
almost everything they scare me all the

1394
00:53:46,730 --> 00:53:45,240
time and this thing goes through and I

1395
00:53:48,650 --> 00:53:46,740
wasn't the least bit afraid I I just

1396
00:53:50,089 --> 00:53:48,660
couldn't get over it and and what it

1397
00:53:53,210 --> 00:53:50,099
looked like was remember the Dementors

1398
00:53:54,650 --> 00:53:53,220
from Harry Potter yeah okay cut them in

1399
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:54,660
half take the bun apart throw them out

1400
00:53:59,569 --> 00:53:56,640
and it's cute it's a hooded figure right

1401
00:54:01,370 --> 00:53:59,579
a typical figures Messengers you know

1402
00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:01,380
that's essentially what they are

1403
00:54:06,290 --> 00:54:04,260
came through and it was staring at the

1404
00:54:08,329 --> 00:54:06,300
bathroom door where I just come out

1405
00:54:10,130 --> 00:54:08,339
and I'm sitting there and he's it's

1406
00:54:12,109 --> 00:54:10,140
probably five feet from me right and

1407
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:12,119
it's just billowing there you know this

1408
00:54:17,270 --> 00:54:14,640
black billowy thing and with this hoodie

1409
00:54:19,130 --> 00:54:17,280
very remarkable and then it's staring

1410
00:54:20,089 --> 00:54:19,140
that way toward the bathroom door and

1411
00:54:23,210 --> 00:54:20,099
then all of a sudden it must have

1412
00:54:26,329 --> 00:54:23,220
realized he's not in there anymore turn

1413
00:54:28,609 --> 00:54:26,339
around and faces me

1414
00:54:30,890 --> 00:54:28,619
no face it's just black right with the

1415
00:54:33,170 --> 00:54:30,900
hood and it's just looking at me and I'm

1416
00:54:34,910 --> 00:54:33,180
looking at it just for maybe 10 or 15

1417
00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:34,920
seconds

1418
00:54:39,170 --> 00:54:37,920
and then it just backs up and Fades

1419
00:54:40,490 --> 00:54:39,180
right out

1420
00:54:43,069 --> 00:54:40,500
now

1421
00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:43,079
think about this for a second under

1422
00:54:47,390 --> 00:54:45,180
normal circumstances

1423
00:54:49,130 --> 00:54:47,400
my hands would be in the air you know my

1424
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:49,140
hair would turn even whiter than it when

1425
00:54:54,289 --> 00:54:51,359
it is I would be screaming bloody bloody

1426
00:54:57,710 --> 00:54:54,299
murder right I I it was what Robert

1427
00:54:59,569 --> 00:54:57,720
Hastings calls them yeah response it's

1428
00:55:01,250 --> 00:54:59,579
like this stuff happens to you and

1429
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:01,260
you're like man you know and that's

1430
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:03,440
exactly what happened I didn't want yeah

1431
00:55:07,789 --> 00:55:06,000
and so I wake my wife now I got a back

1432
00:55:10,970 --> 00:55:07,799
rub she needs to go to sleep yeah I went

1433
00:55:13,609 --> 00:55:10,980
to bed next morning telephone rings get

1434
00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:13,619
up uh buddy amount at the agency called

1435
00:55:17,569 --> 00:55:15,599
me out and said Mark died last night

1436
00:55:19,250 --> 00:55:17,579
around two o'clock

1437
00:55:21,230 --> 00:55:19,260
so

1438
00:55:22,910 --> 00:55:21,240
now you can draw all kind of inferences

1439
00:55:24,829 --> 00:55:22,920
you know uh on what that might have

1440
00:55:26,750 --> 00:55:24,839
meant you know he's a mess it was a

1441
00:55:29,569 --> 00:55:26,760
messenger thing it was maybe it's time

1442
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:29,579
to tell me Mark Mark passed you know um

1443
00:55:34,849 --> 00:55:31,920
and uh well it was really funny so

1444
00:55:37,609 --> 00:55:34,859
actually when it happened I um this this

1445
00:55:40,190 --> 00:55:37,619
group I belong to you know uh that's

1446
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:40,200
being medically looked after

1447
00:55:46,970 --> 00:55:43,440
um I called the primary

1448
00:55:49,549 --> 00:55:46,980
physician and I said this is what

1449
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:49,559
happened and he immediately said uh you

1450
00:55:54,049 --> 00:55:52,079
have to attempt to contact this this is

1451
00:55:56,089 --> 00:55:54,059
this was their attempt to contact you

1452
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:56,099
you have to go back and try to make

1453
00:56:01,609 --> 00:55:59,280
contact I laughed and I said there's no

1454
00:56:04,010 --> 00:56:01,619
way in hell am I going to try to contact

1455
00:56:06,170 --> 00:56:04,020
a hooded figure I'm not going to contact

1456
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:06,180
this thing I don't want anything to do

1457
00:56:09,349 --> 00:56:08,160
with this thing and you know people say

1458
00:56:10,970 --> 00:56:09,359
to me all the time why don't you you

1459
00:56:13,730 --> 00:56:10,980
know I was invited up to the Monroe

1460
00:56:15,710 --> 00:56:13,740
Institute you know to uh uh Chris Chris

1461
00:56:18,049 --> 00:56:15,720
was there plus I was there and some

1462
00:56:19,250 --> 00:56:18,059
other people and John Alexander to you

1463
00:56:21,710 --> 00:56:19,260
know try to see if they could make

1464
00:56:23,809 --> 00:56:21,720
contact with that and I said that's not

1465
00:56:26,089 --> 00:56:23,819
for me you know I'm not I'm not built

1466
00:56:28,970 --> 00:56:26,099
like that I you know I'm not Tethered to

1467
00:56:30,349 --> 00:56:28,980
reality enough anyway let alone try to

1468
00:56:33,230 --> 00:56:30,359
go that far and this is something I've

1469
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:33,240
warn people about uh too you know

1470
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:35,280
playing around with Ouija boards and and

1471
00:56:39,710 --> 00:56:37,440
uh and trying to make these connections

1472
00:56:41,809 --> 00:56:39,720
without having a very very strong

1473
00:56:44,450 --> 00:56:41,819
foundation and without having a guide

1474
00:56:47,210 --> 00:56:44,460
don't do it you don't know what you're

1475
00:56:50,210 --> 00:56:47,220
getting into you don't know what what um

1476
00:56:51,770 --> 00:56:50,220
what lower order or higher order B

1477
00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:51,780
you're going to meet and if you meet a

1478
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:53,520
higher order being all well that's

1479
00:57:00,289 --> 00:56:56,160
wonderful but if you meet a lower order

1480
00:57:03,230 --> 00:57:00,299
entity it's not so good no no have you

1481
00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:03,240
have you found that spiritually because

1482
00:57:07,490 --> 00:57:06,180
you were mentioning esoteric um before

1483
00:57:09,770 --> 00:57:07,500
and have you found that spiritually

1484
00:57:10,730 --> 00:57:09,780
you've been more awakened since the

1485
00:57:14,569 --> 00:57:10,740
experience

1486
00:57:17,450 --> 00:57:14,579
because we found out now okay now I got

1487
00:57:19,490 --> 00:57:17,460
a strong I'm not religious in the least

1488
00:57:23,210 --> 00:57:19,500
um um I used to call myself an atheist

1489
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:23,220
but I'm not I mean I I think

1490
00:57:28,130 --> 00:57:25,440
realistically

1491
00:57:29,450 --> 00:57:28,140
um I'm an agnostic and agnostic in the

1492
00:57:33,170 --> 00:57:29,460
sense that

1493
00:57:34,730 --> 00:57:33,180
um what I do what I do believe is it's

1494
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,740
not so much what I know because I don't

1495
00:57:39,650 --> 00:57:36,960
think we can know anything anyway

1496
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:39,660
what I uh what I believe what I hope to

1497
00:57:43,190 --> 00:57:41,280
be true is that

1498
00:57:44,809 --> 00:57:43,200
there is

1499
00:57:47,630 --> 00:57:44,819
um

1500
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:47,640
an energy pattern we transition into

1501
00:57:53,809 --> 00:57:52,370
since matter can either be created nor

1502
00:57:56,329 --> 00:57:53,819
destroyed I mean we're all energy

1503
00:57:58,130 --> 00:57:56,339
patterns and you know I'm talking to two

1504
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:58,140
energy patterns right here

1505
00:58:02,750 --> 00:58:00,240
what's holding you can together what

1506
00:58:04,490 --> 00:58:02,760
makes you congealed into Jason and Louie

1507
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:04,500
you know is is you know physical force

1508
00:58:07,370 --> 00:58:06,000
is like gravity and then maybe the

1509
00:58:09,170 --> 00:58:07,380
strong nuclear force or whatever it's

1510
00:58:11,089 --> 00:58:09,180
holding you holding those atoms all

1511
00:58:13,789 --> 00:58:11,099
together to turn you into who you are or

1512
00:58:15,170 --> 00:58:13,799
what you look like but but in the end I

1513
00:58:17,210 --> 00:58:15,180
mean you are just the massive energy

1514
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:17,220
you're spinning electrons and neutrons

1515
00:58:20,990 --> 00:58:18,960
and and you know and protons and you're

1516
00:58:24,289 --> 00:58:21,000
just flying all over the place and

1517
00:58:26,510 --> 00:58:24,299
that's really who you are and and uh and

1518
00:58:28,370 --> 00:58:26,520
we we're connecting right now even

1519
00:58:30,770 --> 00:58:28,380
though we're at a great distance and

1520
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,780
this is quantum quantum theory right and

1521
00:58:33,650 --> 00:58:32,160
well you look at that and you say well

1522
00:58:35,809 --> 00:58:33,660
okay well how does hell of that go away

1523
00:58:37,730 --> 00:58:35,819
I mean you know if you're made out of

1524
00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:37,740
energy you know your physical body may

1525
00:58:41,870 --> 00:58:39,780
go but maybe the energy pattern doesn't

1526
00:58:43,370 --> 00:58:41,880
go and it goes someplace else

1527
00:58:44,990 --> 00:58:43,380
and this is one of the big things no

1528
00:58:46,730 --> 00:58:45,000
one's ever explained to me and you know

1529
00:58:48,530 --> 00:58:46,740
when people ask you you know what's your

1530
00:58:52,130 --> 00:58:48,540
cosmology I mean what do you

1531
00:58:54,829 --> 00:58:52,140
what do you truly believe and uh I I I I

1532
00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:54,839
I I I say I don't know because you know

1533
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:56,760
as John Alexander pointed out to me once

1534
00:59:01,010 --> 00:58:58,079
many years ago

1535
00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:01,020
he said he believes or he thinks that

1536
00:59:05,210 --> 00:59:03,200
all these psychic phenomena

1537
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:05,220
psychokinesis Clairvoyance remote

1538
00:59:07,789 --> 00:59:06,480
viewing

1539
00:59:11,809 --> 00:59:07,799
um

1540
00:59:13,549 --> 00:59:11,819
uh you know uaps you know the abductions

1541
00:59:15,890 --> 00:59:13,559
contacts everything are probably all

1542
00:59:19,690 --> 00:59:15,900
connected in some form or fashion

1543
00:59:23,870 --> 00:59:19,700
but no one's got a unifying Theory yet

1544
00:59:26,329 --> 00:59:23,880
uh about what that may be and I do think

1545
00:59:28,490 --> 00:59:26,339
I lean heavily towards thinking that

1546
00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:28,500
they are indeed

1547
00:59:33,710 --> 00:59:30,960
related in some form but I just don't

1548
00:59:36,589 --> 00:59:33,720
know what how that is yeah because even

1549
00:59:38,930 --> 00:59:36,599
when we interviewed uh George Knapp

1550
00:59:40,609 --> 00:59:38,940
um and talked and Coleman Kelleher as

1551
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:40,619
well they were mentioning about the

1552
00:59:44,990 --> 00:59:42,720
Skinwalker Ranch and all these different

1553
00:59:48,109 --> 00:59:45,000
things that are taking place for people

1554
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,119
that have to see UFOs they see Cryptids

1555
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:50,400
and it seems to be all mixed in and

1556
00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:53,760
again like I mentioned when uh you know

1557
00:59:57,770 --> 00:59:55,680
talking to these people have opened up

1558
00:59:59,870 --> 00:59:57,780
my mind to saying okay this is a

1559
01:00:02,329 --> 00:59:59,880
possibility because I was so

1560
01:00:04,309 --> 01:00:02,339
close-minded before on certain topics

1561
01:00:06,349 --> 01:00:04,319
especially the Cryptids I did not know

1562
01:00:08,089 --> 01:00:06,359
much about it Louie actually educated me

1563
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:08,099
quite a bit on it

1564
01:00:12,049 --> 01:00:10,319
um and learning from other guests have

1565
01:00:15,170 --> 01:00:12,059
been on so I'm starting to understand

1566
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:15,180
that the phenomenon is bigger than

1567
01:00:19,250 --> 01:00:17,280
you know just UFOs in the skies like

1568
01:00:20,809 --> 01:00:19,260
there seems to be other stuff that has

1569
01:00:22,609 --> 01:00:20,819
taken place as well that needs to be

1570
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:22,619
considered like you mentioned Jacque

1571
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:25,200
Valley he mentions that very much so in

1572
01:00:29,930 --> 01:00:28,079
his work that uh you know every book he

1573
01:00:31,549 --> 01:00:29,940
has just keeps opening up my mind to

1574
01:00:33,950 --> 01:00:31,559
different possibilities

1575
01:00:36,349 --> 01:00:33,960
uh that you know we don't know what

1576
01:00:38,690 --> 01:00:36,359
we're dealing with right but it's great

1577
01:00:40,910 --> 01:00:38,700
to know that your people within the

1578
01:00:43,549 --> 01:00:40,920
community in Central Intelligence

1579
01:00:45,170 --> 01:00:43,559
Community uh DOD and stuff like that are

1580
01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:45,180
experiencers as well because that's

1581
01:00:49,130 --> 01:00:47,280
that's important right that's something

1582
01:00:51,049 --> 01:00:49,140
that I think disclosure is coming from

1583
01:00:53,390 --> 01:00:51,059
is from the people like yourself sir

1584
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:53,400
that are coming out and saying hey I'm

1585
01:00:59,150 --> 01:00:55,920
an experiencer and I used to work in the

1586
01:01:01,910 --> 01:00:59,160
CIA for crying out loud right yeah you

1587
01:01:03,829 --> 01:01:01,920
know and and you'd be surprised I mean

1588
01:01:06,410 --> 01:01:03,839
uh how many people in the community I

1589
01:01:08,329 --> 01:01:06,420
mean you know uh Jacques used to refer

1590
01:01:09,950 --> 01:01:08,339
to them uh you know as the invisible

1591
01:01:12,410 --> 01:01:09,960
College you know

1592
01:01:15,530 --> 01:01:12,420
um there are organizations look at SCU

1593
01:01:18,770 --> 01:01:15,540
Society for uh not scientific community

1594
01:01:21,230 --> 01:01:18,780
for EOP studies Seattle I mean these are

1595
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:21,240
mostly you know scientists and and many

1596
01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:24,480
of them are experiencers and uh I you

1597
01:01:28,430 --> 01:01:25,680
know I

1598
01:01:31,490 --> 01:01:28,440
you I mean how I mean you know the he's

1599
01:01:33,049 --> 01:01:31,500
a very very smart individuals and uh a

1600
01:01:34,490 --> 01:01:33,059
lot of my friends who work in the

1601
01:01:35,690 --> 01:01:34,500
community you know the intelligence

1602
01:01:38,809 --> 01:01:35,700
community that are experienced there's

1603
01:01:41,690 --> 01:01:38,819
also it's um I I don't you know I don't

1604
01:01:43,690 --> 01:01:41,700
no matter how strange uh and how absurd

1605
01:01:47,510 --> 01:01:43,700
they're um

1606
01:01:49,549 --> 01:01:47,520
experiences are I mean Jacques explained

1607
01:01:51,410 --> 01:01:49,559
to me he said you know because I had

1608
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:51,420
this really heart-to-heart talk with him

1609
01:01:55,970 --> 01:01:54,240
I was I was worried as I started to

1610
01:01:57,470 --> 01:01:55,980
explain this to people

1611
01:01:59,170 --> 01:01:57,480
you know particularly with the

1612
01:02:02,150 --> 01:01:59,180
government some of the government people

1613
01:02:04,549 --> 01:02:02,160
uh what happened to me uh

1614
01:02:07,730 --> 01:02:04,559
I I told shock I said I I don't want to

1615
01:02:09,289 --> 01:02:07,740
come off saying you know uh this

1616
01:02:10,910 --> 01:02:09,299
happened to me you know this you know

1617
01:02:13,069 --> 01:02:10,920
and come out full force I said because I

1618
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:13,079
don't know how to explain it I don't

1619
01:02:17,329 --> 01:02:15,599
know where to put it I said I've never

1620
01:02:19,309 --> 01:02:17,339
had an experience like this it doesn't

1621
01:02:20,809 --> 01:02:19,319
fit into anything that I know

1622
01:02:23,390 --> 01:02:20,819
and I said

1623
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:23,400
um and I asked him what he thought and

1624
01:02:28,910 --> 01:02:26,400
he he said look this is extraordinarily

1625
01:02:31,730 --> 01:02:28,920
complex he says we don't know I we don't

1626
01:02:36,170 --> 01:02:31,740
know what to think about it um

1627
01:02:37,609 --> 01:02:36,180
he uh you know I you know John Keel and

1628
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:37,619
operation Trojan Horse and I've

1629
01:02:42,529 --> 01:02:39,359
mentioned this before

1630
01:02:45,289 --> 01:02:42,539
he has a wonderful chapter on what he

1631
01:02:48,109 --> 01:02:45,299
thinks is going on but he he basically

1632
01:02:50,930 --> 01:02:48,119
calls it you know a paraphysical

1633
01:02:54,770 --> 01:02:50,940
phenomenon and he likes to refer to it

1634
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:54,780
as as a cosmic joke is that there there

1635
01:02:58,730 --> 01:02:56,880
are there are there are this there are

1636
01:03:02,809 --> 01:02:58,740
these entities or there's there's this

1637
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:02,819
intelligence that exists around us in a

1638
01:03:06,529 --> 01:03:04,319
space around us

1639
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:06,539
perhaps in another dimension perhaps in

1640
01:03:10,609 --> 01:03:08,400
just another vibrational level but

1641
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:10,619
nevertheless here with us even in this

1642
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:12,240
Dimension but it is a different

1643
01:03:17,150 --> 01:03:14,400
vibrational level and because our brain

1644
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:17,160
is a filtering system uh primarily and

1645
01:03:21,529 --> 01:03:18,720
because you know our bandwidth we can't

1646
01:03:23,210 --> 01:03:21,539
see as much as people's as like animals

1647
01:03:25,549 --> 01:03:23,220
can see or we can't hear as much as

1648
01:03:27,770 --> 01:03:25,559
something can we're very very small on

1649
01:03:30,349 --> 01:03:27,780
the bandwidth right yeah and our brain

1650
01:03:32,089 --> 01:03:30,359
doesn't allow us to basically take in

1651
01:03:34,130 --> 01:03:32,099
what we like to call awareness with a

1652
01:03:36,109 --> 01:03:34,140
capital A I mean you know we

1653
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:36,119
the idea that you know I'm looking at

1654
01:03:39,289 --> 01:03:37,920
you and I see a microphone well all the

1655
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:39,299
elements that go into the microphone

1656
01:03:43,010 --> 01:03:41,039
makes the microphone a microphone and

1657
01:03:45,410 --> 01:03:43,020
who made the microphone there's so many

1658
01:03:47,390 --> 01:03:45,420
things involved in that that that I I

1659
01:03:49,309 --> 01:03:47,400
can't possibly take that all in at the

1660
01:03:51,049 --> 01:03:49,319
same time when I'm talking here but

1661
01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:51,059
essentially that's what we're talking

1662
01:03:56,750 --> 01:03:53,520
about here it's just our brains don't

1663
01:03:59,750 --> 01:03:56,760
allow all this and

1664
01:04:02,150 --> 01:03:59,760
you know I I it's it that's what's

1665
01:04:04,130 --> 01:04:02,160
frustrating about it that's why I think

1666
01:04:06,710 --> 01:04:04,140
I mean John Keel walked away from it

1667
01:04:08,690 --> 01:04:06,720
numerous times but if that's the case

1668
01:04:10,730 --> 01:04:08,700
that we're all in different vibrational

1669
01:04:12,589 --> 01:04:10,740
levels and these things you know like a

1670
01:04:15,049 --> 01:04:12,599
tree is maybe a very low vibrational

1671
01:04:16,010 --> 01:04:15,059
level where humans are slightly above a

1672
01:04:17,930 --> 01:04:16,020
tree

1673
01:04:19,970 --> 01:04:17,940
um uh you know uh

1674
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:19,980
and then these beings are really really

1675
01:04:22,510 --> 01:04:21,119
high but they were able to bring

1676
01:04:25,430 --> 01:04:22,520
themselves down

1677
01:04:29,150 --> 01:04:25,440
or when you look at Mystics for instance

1678
01:04:30,370 --> 01:04:29,160
who perhaps get themselves through

1679
01:04:34,430 --> 01:04:30,380
chanting

1680
01:04:37,250 --> 01:04:34,440
praying uh intense meditation are able

1681
01:04:39,410 --> 01:04:37,260
to put themselves in another state alter

1682
01:04:42,289 --> 01:04:39,420
state of awareness where they're

1683
01:04:44,990 --> 01:04:42,299
actually able to touch this whatever

1684
01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:45,000
this is this other place

1685
01:04:49,849 --> 01:04:47,280
they could only touch it for like

1686
01:04:52,010 --> 01:04:49,859
seconds if anything you know and perhaps

1687
01:04:55,010 --> 01:04:52,020
maybe a little longer in some cases some

1688
01:04:56,809 --> 01:04:55,020
some kind of some gurus I can supposedly

1689
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:56,819
do that but they're able to touch that

1690
01:05:02,690 --> 01:05:00,240
and and see it and experience it but

1691
01:05:04,430 --> 01:05:02,700
they can't live it because their bodies

1692
01:05:07,370 --> 01:05:04,440
won't allow them to live in it live in

1693
01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:07,380
it it's not their world so and it's not

1694
01:05:14,089 --> 01:05:08,640
our world

1695
01:05:16,490 --> 01:05:14,099
[\h__\h] also points out it's not

1696
01:05:18,829 --> 01:05:16,500
Supernatural one word It's Supernatural

1697
01:05:20,809 --> 01:05:18,839
two words you know this is all natural

1698
01:05:23,569 --> 01:05:20,819
this is all I mean when people sort of

1699
01:05:25,069 --> 01:05:23,579
say para paranormal no it's not it's a

1700
01:05:27,470 --> 01:05:25,079
part of our natural environment we just

1701
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:27,480
haven't been able to pick up on for all

1702
01:05:31,970 --> 01:05:29,760
kinds of reasons physical reasons you

1703
01:05:33,770 --> 01:05:31,980
know or or Consciousness reasons but

1704
01:05:36,890 --> 01:05:33,780
it's there it's with us

1705
01:05:40,010 --> 01:05:36,900
yeah even staging it is okay we don't

1706
01:05:43,730 --> 01:05:40,020
know what he's [\h__\h] with okay

1707
01:05:45,470 --> 01:05:43,740
we think so too Jim well said yes I hope

1708
01:05:47,390 --> 01:05:45,480
yeah I apologize to the listeners out

1709
01:05:49,809 --> 01:05:47,400
there who might be a little we swear all

1710
01:05:53,329 --> 01:05:49,819
the time yeah

1711
01:05:55,670 --> 01:05:53,339
okay yeah yeah it is [\h__\h] with us we

1712
01:05:57,109 --> 01:05:55,680
think so we get equally frustrated you

1713
01:05:59,029 --> 01:05:57,119
know we think we're making some Headway

1714
01:06:00,710 --> 01:05:59,039
and you know you mentioned Jacque Valley

1715
01:06:02,450 --> 01:06:00,720
he's been on our show before and he's

1716
01:06:04,970 --> 01:06:02,460
coming back again for our 100th episode

1717
01:06:06,650 --> 01:06:04,980
but I'm sure he's a man who's run his

1718
01:06:09,170 --> 01:06:06,660
head through the wall enough times going

1719
01:06:10,910 --> 01:06:09,180
I'm a smart guy why can't I figure this

1720
01:06:13,370 --> 01:06:10,920
out why is this [\h__\h] driving me crazy

1721
01:06:15,950 --> 01:06:13,380
and it that's why we keep coming back

1722
01:06:18,410 --> 01:06:15,960
right it's that Eternal Quest we don't

1723
01:06:20,089 --> 01:06:18,420
know when we really want to know and but

1724
01:06:22,069 --> 01:06:20,099
he's on the right track and let me tell

1725
01:06:24,650 --> 01:06:22,079
you I you know his new book Trinity

1726
01:06:27,710 --> 01:06:24,660
right uh I thought it was a wonderful

1727
01:06:30,289 --> 01:06:27,720
book and um what he he talks about

1728
01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:30,299
because when I was when I talked to

1729
01:06:34,430 --> 01:06:32,400
these uip task force you know the people

1730
01:06:35,510 --> 01:06:34,440
uh you know and they tell me you know

1731
01:06:37,490 --> 01:06:35,520
sort of what they're going to be doing

1732
01:06:39,410 --> 01:06:37,500
it's it's apparent that

1733
01:06:41,690 --> 01:06:39,420
they don't

1734
01:06:43,490 --> 01:06:41,700
um they have an incredible scientific

1735
01:06:45,770 --> 01:06:43,500
Minds now we're going to be working on

1736
01:06:47,690 --> 01:06:45,780
this right but but they're working on it

1737
01:06:49,010 --> 01:06:47,700
through at really one aspect they're

1738
01:06:50,750 --> 01:06:49,020
trying to understand it but you know

1739
01:06:52,130 --> 01:06:50,760
frankly don't expect a lot out of them

1740
01:06:53,990 --> 01:06:52,140
because I wouldn't expect a lot out of

1741
01:06:55,789 --> 01:06:54,000
them at all even if you had a private

1742
01:06:57,049 --> 01:06:55,799
group that was open and stuff you're not

1743
01:06:59,089 --> 01:06:57,059
going to get a lot out of it either I

1744
01:07:00,950 --> 01:06:59,099
mean it's like we're talking here we

1745
01:07:02,150 --> 01:07:00,960
don't know anything right yeah that

1746
01:07:04,130 --> 01:07:02,160
would be no different if you had you

1747
01:07:06,529 --> 01:07:04,140
know put 100 scientists against it it's

1748
01:07:09,289 --> 01:07:06,539
just you might make some Headway but

1749
01:07:11,150 --> 01:07:09,299
what what Jacques was is doing and is uh

1750
01:07:13,910 --> 01:07:11,160
is this field Centric model this this

1751
01:07:15,890 --> 01:07:13,920
idea of you have to meet it the

1752
01:07:17,930 --> 01:07:15,900
phenomenon on its own term so when it

1753
01:07:19,010 --> 01:07:17,940
shows up someplace you go where it shows

1754
01:07:21,230 --> 01:07:19,020
up

1755
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:21,240
and you basically study it much like

1756
01:07:25,250 --> 01:07:22,799
Jane Goodall studied you know the

1757
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:25,260
gorillas uh in the great apes and you

1758
01:07:28,309 --> 01:07:26,640
know you have to go to their environment

1759
01:07:30,230 --> 01:07:28,319
and watch them and you you it's

1760
01:07:31,549 --> 01:07:30,240
anecdotes right because you see these

1761
01:07:33,230 --> 01:07:31,559
things all the time you write it all

1762
01:07:35,390 --> 01:07:33,240
down and then you get a scientific

1763
01:07:37,789 --> 01:07:35,400
theory based on what you've seen okay

1764
01:07:39,650 --> 01:07:37,799
chimpanzees gorillas do X Y and Z

1765
01:07:41,329 --> 01:07:39,660
because I've seen them in the field you

1766
01:07:43,309 --> 01:07:41,339
know and this is what we have and other

1767
01:07:45,589 --> 01:07:43,319
people go in and corroborate that and

1768
01:07:47,990 --> 01:07:45,599
you have you have a I think a pretty

1769
01:07:49,789 --> 01:07:48,000
decent way that's what anthropologists

1770
01:07:52,250 --> 01:07:49,799
do and think a pretty decent way of

1771
01:07:55,250 --> 01:07:52,260
figuring things out without using

1772
01:07:57,770 --> 01:07:55,260
uh the classic scientific method right

1773
01:08:00,589 --> 01:07:57,780
this predictability and reliability yeah

1774
01:08:02,870 --> 01:08:00,599
going on because this doesn't fit into

1775
01:08:06,770 --> 01:08:02,880
that mold the phenomena doesn't fit into

1776
01:08:10,069 --> 01:08:06,780
that and and uh and and we science won't

1777
01:08:12,049 --> 01:08:10,079
allow it in nowadays to a certain extent

1778
01:08:14,750 --> 01:08:12,059
uh I think you see more and more people

1779
01:08:16,070 --> 01:08:14,760
wanting to get uh involved scientists

1780
01:08:17,269 --> 01:08:16,080
wanting to get involved with that but

1781
01:08:19,249 --> 01:08:17,279
that that's what makes it very very

1782
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:19,259
difficult yeah and the fact is you may

1783
01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:20,880
never come up with an answer

1784
01:08:24,289 --> 01:08:22,560
well you brought up a good point the

1785
01:08:27,410 --> 01:08:24,299
fact that you cannot repeat and

1786
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:27,420
experiment with uaps or UFOs it's not a

1787
01:08:31,430 --> 01:08:29,520
repeatable thing so trying to figure out

1788
01:08:36,050 --> 01:08:31,440
you know scientifically what's going on

1789
01:08:38,030 --> 01:08:36,060
is is it's impossible yeah yeah and you

1790
01:08:41,090 --> 01:08:38,040
know and people you know say to me well

1791
01:08:42,709 --> 01:08:41,100
you know I I you know they're always

1792
01:08:45,470 --> 01:08:42,719
trying to you know put the blame on the

1793
01:08:47,930 --> 01:08:45,480
government and and I I get that I really

1794
01:08:49,550 --> 01:08:47,940
do get that but come on I mean you know

1795
01:08:50,930 --> 01:08:49,560
the government is made out of made up of

1796
01:08:52,430 --> 01:08:50,940
people like you and me right we're all

1797
01:08:53,689 --> 01:08:52,440
sitting here we're all bozos on the bus

1798
01:08:57,229 --> 01:08:53,699
right we don't know what the hell's

1799
01:08:59,390 --> 01:08:57,239
going on and I think I I I think what

1800
01:09:01,910 --> 01:08:59,400
the what what they really are saying is

1801
01:09:05,570 --> 01:09:01,920
they want the government to come out and

1802
01:09:07,249 --> 01:09:05,580
say this is real yeah well the

1803
01:09:09,590 --> 01:09:07,259
government has sort of done that in a

1804
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:09,600
roundabout way uh recently you know in

1805
01:09:11,990 --> 01:09:11,040
the last year and they've come out and

1806
01:09:15,950 --> 01:09:12,000
said well

1807
01:09:19,130 --> 01:09:15,960
you know it's um could be Chinese could

1808
01:09:22,370 --> 01:09:19,140
be Russian but it also could be this you

1809
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:22,380
know this unknown thing well that was if

1810
01:09:27,530 --> 01:09:25,199
you read a lot of intelligence you know

1811
01:09:30,530 --> 01:09:27,540
papers and stuff like I have here that

1812
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:30,540
was was a very um uh reading between the

1813
01:09:35,090 --> 01:09:32,640
lines what that was saying was yeah it's

1814
01:09:37,070 --> 01:09:35,100
not Chinese not Russians not us this is

1815
01:09:38,870 --> 01:09:37,080
this that's what this is I mean

1816
01:09:40,729 --> 01:09:38,880
everybody I know in the government took

1817
01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:40,739
it that way all right is that what it is

1818
01:09:46,070 --> 01:09:43,440
and now as a one of the things I did in

1819
01:09:49,130 --> 01:09:46,080
CIA was was I paid attention to a lot of

1820
01:09:51,470 --> 01:09:49,140
uh very high-tech exotic

1821
01:09:53,749 --> 01:09:51,480
type of military Technologies around the

1822
01:09:57,770 --> 01:09:53,759
world I will promise you there is no

1823
01:09:59,030 --> 01:09:57,780
Chinese or Russian or or U.S versions of

1824
01:10:01,790 --> 01:09:59,040
the Tic Tac

1825
01:10:04,850 --> 01:10:01,800
don't exist yeah they just don't exist

1826
01:10:06,709 --> 01:10:04,860
and um so it's something else

1827
01:10:08,689 --> 01:10:06,719
yeah and anybody who tried to tell you

1828
01:10:11,330 --> 01:10:08,699
otherwise is full of beans I mean it's

1829
01:10:14,149 --> 01:10:11,340
just absolutely full of beans uh and

1830
01:10:16,370 --> 01:10:14,159
this is why when we started ttsa I mean

1831
01:10:18,169 --> 01:10:16,380
we it's all came to this Mutual

1832
01:10:20,030 --> 01:10:18,179
understanding we are never going to

1833
01:10:21,770 --> 01:10:20,040
defend this we're never going to go talk

1834
01:10:24,110 --> 01:10:21,780
to people

1835
01:10:25,610 --> 01:10:24,120
um about this um and you know from the

1836
01:10:27,649 --> 01:10:25,620
from the from the Viewpoint that we're

1837
01:10:29,990 --> 01:10:27,659
trying to explain to them or convince

1838
01:10:31,790 --> 01:10:30,000
them of anything we're beyond that is

1839
01:10:34,729 --> 01:10:31,800
this no this is real we know it's real

1840
01:10:37,130 --> 01:10:34,739
the evidence is is extraordinary the

1841
01:10:38,570 --> 01:10:37,140
evidence is overwhelming we're just

1842
01:10:39,770 --> 01:10:38,580
trying to find a theory that fits the

1843
01:10:42,050 --> 01:10:39,780
evidence that's all we're trying to do

1844
01:10:44,209 --> 01:10:42,060
but please you know that's why even some

1845
01:10:46,430 --> 01:10:44,219
podcasts I always ask you guys I knew

1846
01:10:47,930 --> 01:10:46,440
about a little bit that you know don't

1847
01:10:49,310 --> 01:10:47,940
don't try to get me in an argument about

1848
01:10:52,250 --> 01:10:49,320
this I'm not I don't want to argue with

1849
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:52,260
it I'm too old yeah it's real yeah you

1850
01:10:56,570 --> 01:10:53,760
know what you know after so many years

1851
01:10:58,729 --> 01:10:56,580
of researching and talking to people you

1852
01:11:00,110 --> 01:10:58,739
know that may not go on camera but you

1853
01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:00,120
know their credentials you know they're

1854
01:11:04,250 --> 01:11:02,400
not nuts if they're telling you it's a

1855
01:11:06,830 --> 01:11:04,260
or b you're probably going to believe

1856
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:06,840
them because they have credibility right

1857
01:11:12,590 --> 01:11:09,600
right you think you're going to write a

1858
01:11:15,229 --> 01:11:12,600
book like um I know that you you write

1859
01:11:17,930 --> 01:11:15,239
books you're you're uh you're a fan of

1860
01:11:20,510 --> 01:11:17,940
reading obviously but your experience I

1861
01:11:22,130 --> 01:11:20,520
mean it's it's private and like you said

1862
01:11:23,570 --> 01:11:22,140
you don't really talk much about it but

1863
01:11:26,209 --> 01:11:23,580
do you think there will come a day where

1864
01:11:27,530 --> 01:11:26,219
maybe you put that all into some sort of

1865
01:11:29,410 --> 01:11:27,540
book

1866
01:11:32,810 --> 01:11:29,420
um and no no

1867
01:11:35,630 --> 01:11:32,820
right now you know a lot of my friends

1868
01:11:38,930 --> 01:11:35,640
in CIA have written books and some of

1869
01:11:41,810 --> 01:11:38,940
them are very very good and um I'm just

1870
01:11:43,310 --> 01:11:41,820
not I I don't have the patience to write

1871
01:11:45,169 --> 01:11:43,320
a book

1872
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:45,179
um nor I don't think I have the mental

1873
01:11:49,910 --> 01:11:47,040
facility to actually write a book I mean

1874
01:11:51,410 --> 01:11:49,920
it's a lot of work yeah and and um I

1875
01:11:53,149 --> 01:11:51,420
think you have to be very clever and I'm

1876
01:11:54,709 --> 01:11:53,159
not really what I would call clever kind

1877
01:11:55,430 --> 01:11:54,719
of guy but

1878
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:55,440
um

1879
01:11:59,689 --> 01:11:57,360
eventually though I will tell I will

1880
01:12:00,950 --> 01:11:59,699
tell the full story uh completely I'm

1881
01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:00,960
actually

1882
01:12:05,090 --> 01:12:02,640
uh is either going to come out through

1883
01:12:08,149 --> 01:12:05,100
my company or through

1884
01:12:11,630 --> 01:12:08,159
um a journalist friend of mine uh

1885
01:12:14,209 --> 01:12:11,640
uh and but I wanted to have

1886
01:12:15,530 --> 01:12:14,219
a little bit of impact

1887
01:12:18,890 --> 01:12:15,540
um you know what I mean when it does

1888
01:12:21,229 --> 01:12:18,900
come out so uh you know where where

1889
01:12:23,390 --> 01:12:21,239
it's not just me it's maybe somebody

1890
01:12:26,270 --> 01:12:23,400
else and there's evidence and I I do

1891
01:12:28,250 --> 01:12:26,280
have of course I mean I have data that I

1892
01:12:29,810 --> 01:12:28,260
can point to you know and I do have that

1893
01:12:31,610 --> 01:12:29,820
so

1894
01:12:32,750 --> 01:12:31,620
um you know the people out there are

1895
01:12:34,070 --> 01:12:32,760
saying oh you ought to talk about it you

1896
01:12:36,890 --> 01:12:34,080
gotta talk well yeah we'll eventually

1897
01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:36,900
I'm going to but it's like when when

1898
01:12:41,390 --> 01:12:39,120
ttsa came out and in the New York Times

1899
01:12:44,870 --> 01:12:41,400
you know did the front page story right

1900
01:12:46,970 --> 01:12:44,880
on on on the uh lose program

1901
01:12:50,689 --> 01:12:46,980
I mean that was all set up

1902
01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:50,699
um you know uh by Leslie Kane and we it

1903
01:12:55,550 --> 01:12:53,760
was me and Lou and Chris

1904
01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:55,560
um and how

1905
01:12:59,870 --> 01:12:58,320
met with Leslie um in the lobby of the

1906
01:13:01,570 --> 01:12:59,880
Ritz Carlton

1907
01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:01,580
in 20

1908
01:13:08,990 --> 01:13:05,760
or late 2016 I believe it was and we

1909
01:13:11,030 --> 01:13:09,000
you know explained everything to her she

1910
01:13:12,590 --> 01:13:11,040
was like oh okay you know you know until

1911
01:13:14,570 --> 01:13:12,600
she got together with Ralph Blumenthal

1912
01:13:17,090 --> 01:13:14,580
and then Helene Helen can't remember her

1913
01:13:19,310 --> 01:13:17,100
last name and they were they had to sell

1914
01:13:21,709 --> 01:13:19,320
this to the editor right the editors we

1915
01:13:23,630 --> 01:13:21,719
did not want to do this but eventually

1916
01:13:25,130 --> 01:13:23,640
um once they once they basically got a

1917
01:13:27,649 --> 01:13:25,140
whole their sources at the Pentagon

1918
01:13:29,810 --> 01:13:27,659
basically said yeah this is true then it

1919
01:13:31,669 --> 01:13:29,820
was all over with then when it hit hit

1920
01:13:34,250 --> 01:13:31,679
and we were all nervous as hell

1921
01:13:35,930 --> 01:13:34,260
because you know we um

1922
01:13:38,630 --> 01:13:35,940
even though everything was done

1923
01:13:42,229 --> 01:13:38,640
according to you know I mean we Lou

1924
01:13:42,890 --> 01:13:42,239
followed protocol like exactly and

1925
01:13:47,390 --> 01:13:42,900
um

1926
01:13:50,209 --> 01:13:47,400
protocol that they were you know the

1927
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:50,219
films were given to Chris and

1928
01:13:54,830 --> 01:13:52,560
um and I remember none of us I mean

1929
01:13:56,270 --> 01:13:54,840
Chris was sort of orchestrating some of

1930
01:13:57,890 --> 01:13:56,280
this because he didn't want

1931
01:13:59,149 --> 01:13:57,900
he didn't want it you know anything to

1932
01:14:00,470 --> 01:13:59,159
be leaked or anything that came out he

1933
01:14:02,390 --> 01:14:00,480
wanted to make sure it was done legally

1934
01:14:05,149 --> 01:14:02,400
and everything was done properly and so

1935
01:14:07,610 --> 01:14:05,159
we just everybody sort of just sort of

1936
01:14:09,649 --> 01:14:07,620
backed off and let let it handle the way

1937
01:14:11,810 --> 01:14:09,659
it went out but um

1938
01:14:13,490 --> 01:14:11,820
um we knew then that was it it was the

1939
01:14:15,169 --> 01:14:13,500
right time to do it but here you have

1940
01:14:17,810 --> 01:14:15,179
guys like George Knapp who's have been

1941
01:14:18,950 --> 01:14:17,820
doing this for like 40 years right

1942
01:14:20,810 --> 01:14:18,960
and

1943
01:14:22,250 --> 01:14:20,820
yeah I think he he was the first guy I

1944
01:14:23,750 --> 01:14:22,260
think he put out the Tic Tac video I

1945
01:14:25,310 --> 01:14:23,760
mean he isn't the guy who's been doing

1946
01:14:27,229 --> 01:14:25,320
this to kind of stuff him chocolate like

1947
01:14:28,910 --> 01:14:27,239
all these guys I mean you know and all

1948
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:28,920
of a sudden this comes out and it it

1949
01:14:33,770 --> 01:14:31,440
looks like you know you know that Lou

1950
01:14:35,689 --> 01:14:33,780
and the ttsca team you know where the

1951
01:14:37,490 --> 01:14:35,699
team you know with the sort of like the

1952
01:14:39,770 --> 01:14:37,500
turning point it may have been a turning

1953
01:14:41,870 --> 01:14:39,780
point but that honest to God you stand

1954
01:14:44,510 --> 01:14:41,880
on the shoulders of giants you know

1955
01:14:46,910 --> 01:14:44,520
these guys are giant and they are giants

1956
01:14:49,130 --> 01:14:46,920
so I'm extraordinarily deferential to

1957
01:14:50,689 --> 01:14:49,140
them all you know because we owe so much

1958
01:14:52,189 --> 01:14:50,699
to all of them you know and George

1959
01:14:54,290 --> 01:14:52,199
mentioned that when he was on our show

1960
01:14:56,450 --> 01:14:54,300
he said that him and Colin Kelleher and

1961
01:14:58,010 --> 01:14:56,460
Jim lacatski and they've been working on

1962
01:14:59,570 --> 01:14:58,020
this since like you said the time of

1963
01:15:02,330 --> 01:14:59,580
nids and all the rest they were

1964
01:15:04,910 --> 01:15:02,340
constantly in touch but his overwhelming

1965
01:15:07,189 --> 01:15:04,920
impression was that they wanted it to

1966
01:15:09,709 --> 01:15:07,199
come through a recognizable figure like

1967
01:15:11,630 --> 01:15:09,719
Tom Delong and they wanted to be

1968
01:15:14,030 --> 01:15:11,640
measurable like nowadays everything is

1969
01:15:16,850 --> 01:15:14,040
metric based it's click based it's view

1970
01:15:19,570 --> 01:15:16,860
times and duration and all the rest so

1971
01:15:21,770 --> 01:15:19,580
if it came out from a lesser-known party

1972
01:15:23,390 --> 01:15:21,780
maybe it wouldn't have got the same

1973
01:15:25,729 --> 01:15:23,400
impact as if it comes out from Tom

1974
01:15:28,010 --> 01:15:25,739
DeLonge so he was happy that it was

1975
01:15:30,470 --> 01:15:28,020
released but I I could sense there was a

1976
01:15:32,270 --> 01:15:30,480
little bit of that I had the story I

1977
01:15:34,310 --> 01:15:32,280
should have been there today he had it

1978
01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:34,320
he had it he had it cold they had it

1979
01:15:39,590 --> 01:15:36,719
cold George in particular I mean yeah

1980
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:39,600
he's just he's like the guy right and um

1981
01:15:43,729 --> 01:15:41,760
and uh you know you sort of feel bad

1982
01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:43,739
about that but you know when the history

1983
01:15:47,630 --> 01:15:45,600
gets written I mean he's going to have a

1984
01:15:49,610 --> 01:15:47,640
prominent role I mean in all of this I

1985
01:15:51,649 --> 01:15:49,620
mean it's just because he did he played

1986
01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:51,659
a prominent role in this he you know him

1987
01:15:57,770 --> 01:15:54,239
Jacques valet combed all those guys like

1988
01:15:59,330 --> 01:15:57,780
Caskey you know uh these guys are the

1989
01:16:01,729 --> 01:15:59,340
ones you know Richard Dolan you know

1990
01:16:03,470 --> 01:16:01,739
another fellow I've never met but really

1991
01:16:05,149 --> 01:16:03,480
respect his work I have all his books

1992
01:16:07,669 --> 01:16:05,159
here I read them all don't agree with

1993
01:16:09,610 --> 01:16:07,679
some of this stuff but but uh I mean

1994
01:16:11,570 --> 01:16:09,620
some of his

1995
01:16:13,130 --> 01:16:11,580
conclusions that he might have drawn

1996
01:16:14,510 --> 01:16:13,140
towards the end but I you know but

1997
01:16:17,149 --> 01:16:14,520
that's that's okay I mean I understand

1998
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:17,159
them but I think he did an absolutely

1999
01:16:20,630 --> 01:16:18,719
extraordinary job of getting this all

2000
01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:20,640
down and he did it really really well

2001
01:16:25,970 --> 01:16:23,040
he's a true and then Robert Hastings who

2002
01:16:28,090 --> 01:16:25,980
you know who I consider to be you know

2003
01:16:30,590 --> 01:16:28,100
almost like a a a

2004
01:16:34,130 --> 01:16:30,600
sort of a God in all of this I mean his

2005
01:16:36,290 --> 01:16:34,140
seminal work you know UFOs and nukes

2006
01:16:37,550 --> 01:16:36,300
it just to me is just probably one of

2007
01:16:39,590 --> 01:16:37,560
the best books ever written on the

2008
01:16:41,689 --> 01:16:39,600
subject and um it was a book that was

2009
01:16:45,050 --> 01:16:41,699
passed around in the Department of

2010
01:16:48,290 --> 01:16:45,060
Defense and ncia and uh other places and

2011
01:16:51,470 --> 01:16:48,300
still is is used as a reference book

2012
01:16:52,850 --> 01:16:51,480
um and we let him know that and uh you

2013
01:16:55,669 --> 01:16:52,860
know he's I think he's very appreciative

2014
01:16:57,530 --> 01:16:55,679
that his his book was actually uh as

2015
01:17:00,709 --> 01:16:57,540
seen as like you know the because he's

2016
01:17:02,810 --> 01:17:00,719
such a great writer and a true a true

2017
01:17:04,910 --> 01:17:02,820
true journalist so

2018
01:17:07,070 --> 01:17:04,920
oh that's the way to do it is to to

2019
01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:07,080
point out you know everybody has a role

2020
01:17:11,570 --> 01:17:09,600
to play in this uh one of the questions

2021
01:17:14,270 --> 01:17:11,580
that I have is in your personal

2022
01:17:16,189 --> 01:17:14,280
experience or your professional

2023
01:17:18,410 --> 01:17:16,199
um opinion

2024
01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:18,420
should this be an issue that is

2025
01:17:22,850 --> 01:17:21,120
regulate like we have something you know

2026
01:17:23,870 --> 01:17:22,860
in Canada we have something in the

2027
01:17:26,270 --> 01:17:23,880
states we have something that's

2028
01:17:28,370 --> 01:17:26,280
happening in in Japan I think has their

2029
01:17:30,050 --> 01:17:28,380
own organization as well now that

2030
01:17:31,310 --> 01:17:30,060
they're investing in UAP should there be

2031
01:17:33,590 --> 01:17:31,320
a global

2032
01:17:35,209 --> 01:17:33,600
uh connection at some point like should

2033
01:17:37,010 --> 01:17:35,219
we all work together as countries

2034
01:17:39,290 --> 01:17:37,020
towards this because I think it's all

2035
01:17:42,050 --> 01:17:39,300
individualistic right now it's all every

2036
01:17:43,910 --> 01:17:42,060
country for themselves on this topic uh

2037
01:17:46,070 --> 01:17:43,920
do you think that this is something that

2038
01:17:48,729 --> 01:17:46,080
might be approached later on as a global

2039
01:17:52,010 --> 01:17:48,739
issue or is it still going to be sort of

2040
01:17:53,450 --> 01:17:52,020
compartmentalized within each other's

2041
01:17:57,850 --> 01:17:53,460
countries

2042
01:18:00,470 --> 01:17:57,860
both both yeah both and and and I think

2043
01:18:02,209 --> 01:18:00,480
in general

2044
01:18:06,649 --> 01:18:02,219
um what we need

2045
01:18:07,850 --> 01:18:06,659
is each country has a

2046
01:18:11,209 --> 01:18:07,860
um

2047
01:18:13,669 --> 01:18:11,219
a group setup that deals with this right

2048
01:18:15,890 --> 01:18:13,679
that is funded

2049
01:18:18,649 --> 01:18:15,900
either you know how it's funded it

2050
01:18:20,630 --> 01:18:18,659
privately funded or and or publicly

2051
01:18:23,510 --> 01:18:20,640
funded

2052
01:18:25,130 --> 01:18:23,520
um uh it doesn't have a quarterly review

2053
01:18:26,689 --> 01:18:25,140
that you have to produce anything

2054
01:18:28,550 --> 01:18:26,699
because you're not going to produce

2055
01:18:30,410 --> 01:18:28,560
anything with this initially for the

2056
01:18:31,490 --> 01:18:30,420
next first four or five years you just

2057
01:18:33,470 --> 01:18:31,500
it's going to take that long distance

2058
01:18:35,990 --> 01:18:33,480
set up and get everything all the

2059
01:18:38,149 --> 01:18:36,000
databases straightened out and um and

2060
01:18:40,430 --> 01:18:38,159
like I said a lot of this is beyond our

2061
01:18:42,110 --> 01:18:40,440
Ken anyway we don't have the technology

2062
01:18:43,430 --> 01:18:42,120
to fully understand it even to

2063
01:18:44,090 --> 01:18:43,440
investigate it

2064
01:18:45,530 --> 01:18:44,100
um

2065
01:18:48,350 --> 01:18:45,540
so it's going to take time but

2066
01:18:50,209 --> 01:18:48,360
nevertheless we should have that and I

2067
01:18:51,950 --> 01:18:50,219
think if we actually did that I think

2068
01:18:53,450 --> 01:18:51,960
other countries would follow suit and

2069
01:18:56,090 --> 01:18:53,460
then yes we should be exchanging

2070
01:18:57,350 --> 01:18:56,100
information on an unclassified level now

2071
01:19:00,169 --> 01:18:57,360
let me tell you what the what the

2072
01:19:05,149 --> 01:19:00,179
problematic part with all this stuff is

2073
01:19:07,970 --> 01:19:05,159
um any government that's out there

2074
01:19:10,430 --> 01:19:07,980
worth their salt is you know they're

2075
01:19:11,870 --> 01:19:10,440
always looking to preserve their system

2076
01:19:13,850 --> 01:19:11,880
of government their form of government

2077
01:19:15,709 --> 01:19:13,860
their governmental structure I mean we

2078
01:19:17,990 --> 01:19:15,719
might look at North Korea right and

2079
01:19:19,910 --> 01:19:18,000
really well that is the thugocracy right

2080
01:19:21,470 --> 01:19:19,920
it's just a bunch of thugs you know

2081
01:19:23,090 --> 01:19:21,480
running Russia is pretty much the same

2082
01:19:26,270 --> 01:19:23,100
thing you know it's a mafia you know

2083
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:26,280
with some corrupt uh politicians and

2084
01:19:29,689 --> 01:19:28,320
what have you so they need they want to

2085
01:19:32,270 --> 01:19:29,699
stay in power so what they're going to

2086
01:19:34,910 --> 01:19:32,280
do is anything they could weaponize to

2087
01:19:36,290 --> 01:19:34,920
give them leverage they'll do so let's

2088
01:19:38,209 --> 01:19:36,300
say

2089
01:19:41,330 --> 01:19:38,219
that the United States

2090
01:19:44,990 --> 01:19:41,340
you know has hypothetically can you know

2091
01:19:46,610 --> 01:19:45,000
has a down craft uh and is looking at

2092
01:19:48,890 --> 01:19:46,620
this craft and can't figure out how the

2093
01:19:50,510 --> 01:19:48,900
hell it works but nevertheless a throat

2094
01:19:53,990 --> 01:19:50,520
enough scientists and money on it to

2095
01:19:56,209 --> 01:19:54,000
figure out you know maybe looking at the

2096
01:19:57,890 --> 01:19:56,219
com how this thing is you know built or

2097
01:19:59,330 --> 01:19:57,900
you know the composite materials they

2098
01:20:01,669 --> 01:19:59,340
were able to figure something out and

2099
01:20:03,169 --> 01:20:01,679
maybe they got the C or D version of

2100
01:20:05,810 --> 01:20:03,179
this now right they were able to reverse

2101
01:20:07,790 --> 01:20:05,820
engineer to a much much lower level but

2102
01:20:09,290 --> 01:20:07,800
nevertheless a level that might be an

2103
01:20:10,689 --> 01:20:09,300
order of magnitude greater than what

2104
01:20:13,310 --> 01:20:10,699
they currently have

2105
01:20:14,689 --> 01:20:13,320
so they don't they're not going to take

2106
01:20:16,010 --> 01:20:14,699
this technology and they're not going to

2107
01:20:17,149 --> 01:20:16,020
give it to the world and they're going

2108
01:20:18,470 --> 01:20:17,159
to say look what we've found you know I

2109
01:20:20,689 --> 01:20:18,480
mean it's free energy they're not going

2110
01:20:22,910 --> 01:20:20,699
to do that because what happens is once

2111
01:20:26,450 --> 01:20:22,920
you do that uh

2112
01:20:29,149 --> 01:20:26,460
um that type of Technology then becomes

2113
01:20:31,550 --> 01:20:29,159
ubiquitous and governments that may not

2114
01:20:33,590 --> 01:20:31,560
be you know well who have you know

2115
01:20:35,570 --> 01:20:33,600
interest and difficult to your own

2116
01:20:38,330 --> 01:20:35,580
may use that against you I mean the

2117
01:20:40,490 --> 01:20:38,340
world's a nasty nasty place I mean in

2118
01:20:42,410 --> 01:20:40,500
CIA that's one of the things I took out

2119
01:20:44,270 --> 01:20:42,420
of it was you know the the Ark of

2120
01:20:46,250 --> 01:20:44,280
justice and the Arca morality I think is

2121
01:20:48,530 --> 01:20:46,260
it really does flow towards the right

2122
01:20:50,750 --> 01:20:48,540
and the good it really does but it's a

2123
01:20:53,629 --> 01:20:50,760
very very small Arc it's not this great

2124
01:20:56,270 --> 01:20:53,639
big arctic you have some nasty nasty

2125
01:20:58,010 --> 01:20:56,280
people out there and

2126
01:20:59,689 --> 01:20:58,020
uh they would love to see they're

2127
01:21:02,209 --> 01:20:59,699
nothing love better than you know the

2128
01:21:05,689 --> 01:21:02,219
foment Revolution and pain and Agony and

2129
01:21:07,250 --> 01:21:05,699
War so you want to keep Technologies

2130
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:07,260
away from them and the only way you do

2131
01:21:11,689 --> 01:21:09,360
that is to keep them compartmentalized

2132
01:21:14,450 --> 01:21:11,699
and classified that's just a state of

2133
01:21:15,890 --> 01:21:14,460
affairs I I I I would hope that we

2134
01:21:17,750 --> 01:21:15,900
figured out a way to have free energy

2135
01:21:19,129 --> 01:21:17,760
and give it to everybody but you know

2136
01:21:21,169 --> 01:21:19,139
what's going to happen to that and

2137
01:21:23,270 --> 01:21:21,179
they're gonna someone's gonna weaponize

2138
01:21:25,430 --> 01:21:23,280
it's this whole idea of you know like

2139
01:21:27,709 --> 01:21:25,440
for instance a do-it-yourself bio you

2140
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:27,719
know these bio punks who basically were

2141
01:21:31,490 --> 01:21:29,280
able to hack into they're able to buy

2142
01:21:33,169 --> 01:21:31,500
little strains of chromosomes and DNA

2143
01:21:35,209 --> 01:21:33,179
and then put together something it's

2144
01:21:38,450 --> 01:21:35,219
really only a matter of time before some

2145
01:21:39,890 --> 01:21:38,460
English major uh with a knack for you

2146
01:21:42,530 --> 01:21:39,900
know biology is going to put together

2147
01:21:45,649 --> 01:21:42,540
you know something that resembles uh

2148
01:21:48,890 --> 01:21:45,659
smallpox or Aids and able to put it into

2149
01:21:50,450 --> 01:21:48,900
a flu virus and then you know decide

2150
01:21:53,570 --> 01:21:50,460
he's going to take out

2151
01:21:55,910 --> 01:21:53,580
you know uh uh you know half the United

2152
01:21:57,410 --> 01:21:55,920
States you know by infecting five or six

2153
01:21:59,689 --> 01:21:57,420
people putting them on airplanes and off

2154
01:22:01,310 --> 01:21:59,699
they go I mean those kind of scenarios

2155
01:22:03,229 --> 01:22:01,320
are actually you know real and they

2156
01:22:04,490 --> 01:22:03,239
they're maybe not quite yet but really

2157
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:04,500
in the next three or four or five years

2158
01:22:09,050 --> 01:22:06,480
that this is going to be doable

2159
01:22:10,430 --> 01:22:09,060
so like I said the world is a dangerous

2160
01:22:12,050 --> 01:22:10,440
place so if you look if you're the

2161
01:22:13,310 --> 01:22:12,060
United States government or the Russian

2162
01:22:15,470 --> 01:22:13,320
government you know what you're going to

2163
01:22:17,030 --> 01:22:15,480
do is you're having to keep what you may

2164
01:22:20,090 --> 01:22:17,040
know about this

2165
01:22:21,770 --> 01:22:20,100
um uh that gives you an advantage

2166
01:22:23,629 --> 01:22:21,780
particularly militarily over another

2167
01:22:25,010 --> 01:22:23,639
country you're really not going to want

2168
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:25,020
to share that and you really want to

2169
01:22:27,470 --> 01:22:25,920
you're really going to want to

2170
01:22:31,010 --> 01:22:27,480
compartmentalize it and make sure nobody

2171
01:22:32,390 --> 01:22:31,020
has that so that's the problem so when

2172
01:22:35,209 --> 01:22:32,400
Japan comes over to the United States

2173
01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:35,219
and says you know tell me everything you

2174
01:22:39,649 --> 01:22:36,560
know about

2175
01:22:41,209 --> 01:22:39,659
UFOs and the phenomenon I mean you know

2176
01:22:43,189 --> 01:22:41,219
they can go to the private organization

2177
01:22:45,169 --> 01:22:43,199
and we can we can give them that you

2178
01:22:46,669 --> 01:22:45,179
know and but they go to the military in

2179
01:22:49,550 --> 01:22:46,679
the military they're not going to do

2180
01:22:50,930 --> 01:22:49,560
that yeah what will tell you maybe we'll

2181
01:22:52,490 --> 01:22:50,940
share some data with you we're not going

2182
01:22:54,530 --> 01:22:52,500
to share all the data

2183
01:22:56,629 --> 01:22:54,540
no you know there's five eyes you know

2184
01:22:59,149 --> 01:22:56,639
uh you're familiar with five eyes

2185
01:23:01,310 --> 01:22:59,159
uh five eyes is uh is an intelligence

2186
01:23:02,990 --> 01:23:01,320
relationship

2187
01:23:06,709 --> 01:23:03,000
that exists between the United States

2188
01:23:09,590 --> 01:23:06,719
Canada uh Great Britain New Zealand and

2189
01:23:12,290 --> 01:23:09,600
Australia they share an enormous amount

2190
01:23:14,930 --> 01:23:12,300
of information uh with one another

2191
01:23:18,290 --> 01:23:14,940
um and so would there be sharing of

2192
01:23:19,850 --> 01:23:18,300
information between five eyes and you

2193
01:23:21,950 --> 01:23:19,860
know on this particular topic probably

2194
01:23:23,030 --> 01:23:21,960
to a certain extent they don't share

2195
01:23:24,830 --> 01:23:23,040
everything with them but they share

2196
01:23:28,430 --> 01:23:24,840
quite a bit

2197
01:23:30,169 --> 01:23:28,440
um so yeah so I think that's what the

2198
01:23:32,030 --> 01:23:30,179
problem is is it fair

2199
01:23:32,990 --> 01:23:32,040
to all us all of the people out there

2200
01:23:35,689 --> 01:23:33,000
really want to know what the hell's

2201
01:23:37,189 --> 01:23:35,699
going on no no

2202
01:23:39,530 --> 01:23:37,199
um but you can make a very strong

2203
01:23:42,010 --> 01:23:39,540
argument that you really don't you don't

2204
01:23:43,910 --> 01:23:42,020
want to take that information

2205
01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:43,920
necessarily and put it all out there

2206
01:23:47,750 --> 01:23:45,360
right so

2207
01:23:49,790 --> 01:23:47,760
it's a threat it's just like does that

2208
01:23:51,830 --> 01:23:49,800
make sure am I am I all wet I mean I

2209
01:23:53,689 --> 01:23:51,840
could be aware no it makes sense yeah

2210
01:23:55,850 --> 01:23:53,699
people have good intentions and bad

2211
01:23:57,830 --> 01:23:55,860
intentions with everything and if it's

2212
01:23:59,030 --> 01:23:57,840
groundbreaking technology you know

2213
01:24:00,770 --> 01:23:59,040
there's some people that just want to

2214
01:24:03,530 --> 01:24:00,780
make it for their own purpose and that

2215
01:24:07,310 --> 01:24:03,540
may be an evil one yeah if there was a

2216
01:24:10,490 --> 01:24:07,320
way I I I mean you I mean if you if you

2217
01:24:12,770 --> 01:24:10,500
have Plato or Socrates you know in this

2218
01:24:14,810 --> 01:24:12,780
conversation there were two more squares

2219
01:24:16,070 --> 01:24:14,820
here and they were we would have a

2220
01:24:18,350 --> 01:24:16,080
wonderful conversation about this

2221
01:24:21,110 --> 01:24:18,360
because you know they there are

2222
01:24:22,850 --> 01:24:21,120
philosophers you know and um they they

2223
01:24:25,010 --> 01:24:22,860
understood this I mean you know they

2224
01:24:26,330 --> 01:24:25,020
were first-rate minds they would fit

2225
01:24:27,649 --> 01:24:26,340
right in with this type of topic area

2226
01:24:30,229 --> 01:24:27,659
the only thing that would separate them

2227
01:24:31,790 --> 01:24:30,239
from us is technology is in the sense

2228
01:24:34,370 --> 01:24:31,800
that they wouldn't know what a hell an

2229
01:24:36,770 --> 01:24:34,380
iPhone was or a microphone or or this it

2230
01:24:39,709 --> 01:24:36,780
would be magic to them in a way but

2231
01:24:42,229 --> 01:24:39,719
nevertheless the foundations uh uh and

2232
01:24:44,689 --> 01:24:42,239
what they talked about truth and justice

2233
01:24:46,550 --> 01:24:44,699
you know and morality

2234
01:24:48,050 --> 01:24:46,560
um yeah we can easily have a

2235
01:24:50,750 --> 01:24:48,060
conversation with them in the 21st

2236
01:24:53,390 --> 01:24:50,760
century about that today

2237
01:24:56,330 --> 01:24:53,400
um but on technology we can't and the

2238
01:24:58,490 --> 01:24:56,340
problem is is we technology has moved so

2239
01:25:01,490 --> 01:24:58,500
quickly that

2240
01:25:03,890 --> 01:25:01,500
um and and we have not really

2241
01:25:05,689 --> 01:25:03,900
moved as quickly in the Realms of

2242
01:25:08,870 --> 01:25:05,699
goodness morality

2243
01:25:10,550 --> 01:25:08,880
and uh ethical Behavior as I think we

2244
01:25:13,010 --> 01:25:10,560
should have as human beings I think the

2245
01:25:14,990 --> 01:25:13,020
bulk of human beings are moral have a

2246
01:25:16,370 --> 01:25:15,000
decent moral and ethical Center you know

2247
01:25:19,850 --> 01:25:16,380
but look what's going on in the United

2248
01:25:21,590 --> 01:25:19,860
States I mean this divide we have now uh

2249
01:25:25,070 --> 01:25:21,600
all this disinformation that's out there

2250
01:25:26,570 --> 01:25:25,080
and um it's awful and uh by a former

2251
01:25:29,810 --> 01:25:26,580
president who keeps putting it out there

2252
01:25:33,110 --> 01:25:30,890
just I don't know whether you're

2253
01:25:36,110 --> 01:25:33,120
Republican attempt grat I generally team

2254
01:25:39,229 --> 01:25:36,120
lean towards Democrat but but it's

2255
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:39,239
you know I it's you can't you can't do

2256
01:25:42,830 --> 01:25:41,520
that it's it's just it's it really

2257
01:25:49,310 --> 01:25:42,840
damages

2258
01:25:51,950 --> 01:25:49,320
unethical behavior and it shouldn't go

2259
01:25:53,209 --> 01:25:51,960
on but this is what happens this is

2260
01:25:54,830 --> 01:25:53,219
happening around the globe and hopefully

2261
01:25:58,010 --> 01:25:54,840
it'll get better

2262
01:26:01,729 --> 01:25:59,629
gotta hang in there that's the only

2263
01:26:03,229 --> 01:26:01,739
thing that we can do as a species but

2264
01:26:04,790 --> 01:26:03,239
yeah you mentioned

2265
01:26:07,129 --> 01:26:04,800
um you know our talking with

2266
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:07,139
philosophers

2267
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:09,840
as a species we really haven't evolved

2268
01:26:14,570 --> 01:26:12,000
much from the Medieval Age I mean we

2269
01:26:16,970 --> 01:26:14,580
just got better technology to kill more

2270
01:26:19,010 --> 01:26:16,980
people but our ideas and you know

2271
01:26:21,169 --> 01:26:19,020
concepts of killing other people the

2272
01:26:22,970 --> 01:26:21,179
valuing somebody else's life and stuff

2273
01:26:25,669 --> 01:26:22,980
like that or another country's purpose

2274
01:26:27,110 --> 01:26:25,679
uh we've always done that and I don't

2275
01:26:30,530 --> 01:26:27,120
think that's going to end anytime soon

2276
01:26:32,330 --> 01:26:30,540
and with the disclosure being what it is

2277
01:26:33,770 --> 01:26:32,340
I don't think it's going to bring the

2278
01:26:35,570 --> 01:26:33,780
countries together if you're saying hey

2279
01:26:38,209 --> 01:26:35,580
we're being visited by something from

2280
01:26:41,510 --> 01:26:38,219
somewhere else would that unite the

2281
01:26:43,550 --> 01:26:41,520
planet I think what was his name um

2282
01:26:46,189 --> 01:26:43,560
I was going to say Rogan it's not Rogan

2283
01:26:47,750 --> 01:26:46,199
Reagan uh the president he once

2284
01:26:49,550 --> 01:26:47,760
mentioned that at the U.N meeting he

2285
01:26:50,990 --> 01:26:49,560
says I will often wonder if uh you know

2286
01:26:53,149 --> 01:26:51,000
if we were being attacked from a night

2287
01:26:57,590 --> 01:26:53,159
size Source if we would

2288
01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:57,600
come together as a species and I I often

2289
01:27:02,510 --> 01:27:00,719
thought that too like maybe that's what

2290
01:27:05,030 --> 01:27:02,520
we need is we need to have some sort of

2291
01:27:07,610 --> 01:27:05,040
fear of something to be able to unite us

2292
01:27:09,169 --> 01:27:07,620
to progress because right now we're

2293
01:27:12,110 --> 01:27:09,179
we're just a hot mess like you mentioned

2294
01:27:13,790 --> 01:27:12,120
the states it's a hot mess right now

2295
01:27:17,810 --> 01:27:13,800
um and we hope to get back on track

2296
01:27:18,890 --> 01:27:17,820
anyways uh with this closure is is the

2297
01:27:20,689 --> 01:27:18,900
main thing I think we're all being

2298
01:27:22,550 --> 01:27:20,699
distracted right now with uh Donald

2299
01:27:24,530 --> 01:27:22,560
Trump and all that but the government

2300
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:24,540
literally came out and said uops are

2301
01:27:30,470 --> 01:27:27,120
real UFOs are real and it didn't make

2302
01:27:32,030 --> 01:27:30,480
much of a boom at all in within the

2303
01:27:34,729 --> 01:27:32,040
media there's a few places that have

2304
01:27:37,669 --> 01:27:34,739
caught on like uh Tucker Carlson is is

2305
01:27:40,970 --> 01:27:37,679
you know hosting people all the time a

2306
01:27:42,709 --> 01:27:40,980
few CNN things but uh it really hasn't

2307
01:27:44,510 --> 01:27:42,719
boomed as much as I thought it was going

2308
01:27:45,229 --> 01:27:44,520
to be I mean to me it was a huge shock

2309
01:27:48,890 --> 01:27:45,239
but

2310
01:27:50,990 --> 01:27:48,900
well this is not you know I I like to

2311
01:27:53,270 --> 01:27:51,000
remind people and where I said this

2312
01:27:54,050 --> 01:27:53,280
right before we went on we live in a

2313
01:27:56,810 --> 01:27:54,060
very

2314
01:27:58,850 --> 01:27:56,820
small bubble uh this UFO phenomena

2315
01:28:01,250 --> 01:27:58,860
bubble UAP phenomenon

2316
01:28:02,930 --> 01:28:01,260
and um we like to think you know that

2317
01:28:04,129 --> 01:28:02,940
it's it's the hottest topic I I always

2318
01:28:06,229 --> 01:28:04,139
tell people it's a story of the

2319
01:28:07,490 --> 01:28:06,239
Millennium yeah why aren't you jumping

2320
01:28:09,229 --> 01:28:07,500
up and down I mean why aren't people

2321
01:28:10,970 --> 01:28:09,239
jumping up and down oh my God you know

2322
01:28:12,350 --> 01:28:10,980
we're not alone and this is how are we

2323
01:28:15,530 --> 01:28:12,360
going to fit this in and how are we

2324
01:28:18,290 --> 01:28:15,540
going to handle this nobody cares uh I

2325
01:28:20,510 --> 01:28:18,300
was at a party the other night

2326
01:28:23,390 --> 01:28:20,520
and um um

2327
01:28:25,550 --> 01:28:23,400
oh almost everybody there had a PhD or

2328
01:28:27,410 --> 01:28:25,560
JD or something along those lines or

2329
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:27,420
Advanced degrees and we were talking

2330
01:28:32,330 --> 01:28:29,760
about this uh if the subject came up but

2331
01:28:33,830 --> 01:28:32,340
it was very clear that hey nobody knew

2332
01:28:35,930 --> 01:28:33,840
anything about it

2333
01:28:37,850 --> 01:28:35,940
um people still thought it was sort of a

2334
01:28:38,870 --> 01:28:37,860
jokey kind of thing

2335
01:28:41,570 --> 01:28:38,880
um and these are you know

2336
01:28:44,990 --> 01:28:41,580
extraordinarily bright people and but

2337
01:28:48,169 --> 01:28:45,000
outside of our little group

2338
01:28:51,050 --> 01:28:48,179
it's not this is not on anybody's top 50

2339
01:28:52,129 --> 01:28:51,060
list let alone top 10 list nobody gives

2340
01:28:53,629 --> 01:28:52,139
a damn

2341
01:28:55,310 --> 01:28:53,639
um I've had people come down to this

2342
01:28:57,010 --> 01:28:55,320
little room of mine you know look at all

2343
01:28:59,990 --> 01:28:57,020
this this stuff

2344
01:29:02,270 --> 01:29:00,000
I mean you know jaws drop a little bit

2345
01:29:04,850 --> 01:29:02,280
and what the hell are you reading and

2346
01:29:06,950 --> 01:29:04,860
you know and I and I so you know I I

2347
01:29:08,270 --> 01:29:06,960
always attempt to engage him in and you

2348
01:29:09,590 --> 01:29:08,280
know but usually within the first few

2349
01:29:11,149 --> 01:29:09,600
minutes you realize I'm not the least

2350
01:29:13,370 --> 01:29:11,159
bit interested their eyes glaze over

2351
01:29:14,209 --> 01:29:13,380
when you start talking about it

2352
01:29:18,950 --> 01:29:14,219
um

2353
01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:18,960
so you know you know this until we get

2354
01:29:23,570 --> 01:29:22,320
what what I like to call um you know you

2355
01:29:25,490 --> 01:29:23,580
know the brick wall falling on

2356
01:29:27,169 --> 01:29:25,500
somebody's head you know the definitive

2357
01:29:32,330 --> 01:29:27,179
kind of

2358
01:29:34,610 --> 01:29:32,340
incident right where a a craft you know

2359
01:29:35,990 --> 01:29:34,620
makes itself known to a large amount of

2360
01:29:37,910 --> 01:29:36,000
people

2361
01:29:40,070 --> 01:29:37,920
um uh you know and it can be it

2362
01:29:41,530 --> 01:29:40,080
photographed and what have you um you

2363
01:29:45,290 --> 01:29:41,540
know there I mean

2364
01:29:46,669 --> 01:29:45,300
where it's it's apparent very clear what

2365
01:29:48,950 --> 01:29:46,679
has happened until that happens

2366
01:29:50,930 --> 01:29:48,960
nothing's gonna happen right now we have

2367
01:29:52,850 --> 01:29:50,940
all this radar data we actually have

2368
01:29:54,470 --> 01:29:52,860
pictures pictures are not going to come

2369
01:29:57,590 --> 01:29:54,480
out I don't think or may come out I

2370
01:29:59,930 --> 01:29:57,600
don't know uh but the point is is it's

2371
01:30:03,350 --> 01:29:59,940
not going to happen until until that

2372
01:30:05,870 --> 01:30:03,360
happens so whose problem is it yeah yeah

2373
01:30:08,149 --> 01:30:05,880
I always like to say you know you know

2374
01:30:09,350 --> 01:30:08,159
you can what we end up doing is blaming

2375
01:30:11,870 --> 01:30:09,360
ourselves right we blame the government

2376
01:30:13,250 --> 01:30:11,880
we blame you know uh you know I'm

2377
01:30:14,450 --> 01:30:13,260
sitting here going you know yapping

2378
01:30:16,310 --> 01:30:14,460
about most people don't give a damn

2379
01:30:18,830 --> 01:30:16,320
about it it's a story Millennium but

2380
01:30:20,510 --> 01:30:18,840
really the it's it's it's the

2381
01:30:23,870 --> 01:30:20,520
phenomenon's fault

2382
01:30:26,570 --> 01:30:23,880
you know screw that you know screw them

2383
01:30:29,510 --> 01:30:26,580
they come into your bedroom they come

2384
01:30:31,250 --> 01:30:29,520
over your car you know they're the ones

2385
01:30:33,830 --> 01:30:31,260
causing all this [\h__\h] they're the ones

2386
01:30:35,330 --> 01:30:33,840
and all they're doing is waving at us

2387
01:30:38,030 --> 01:30:35,340
right flipping us the middle finger

2388
01:30:39,590 --> 01:30:38,040
because essentially you know they're

2389
01:30:41,689 --> 01:30:39,600
they're basically saying look we're here

2390
01:30:43,850 --> 01:30:41,699
we're here we'll give you this I mean

2391
01:30:46,790 --> 01:30:43,860
you could you can catch us we'll let you

2392
01:30:48,470 --> 01:30:46,800
get close but not too close is what I

2393
01:30:50,750 --> 01:30:48,480
told Robert Hastings once I said you

2394
01:30:53,510 --> 01:30:50,760
know they tease you cajole you you know

2395
01:30:55,129 --> 01:30:53,520
they uh deceive you uh they'll do

2396
01:30:57,470 --> 01:30:55,139
anything you know say anything do

2397
01:30:59,350 --> 01:30:57,480
anything but they'll never introduce

2398
01:31:01,669 --> 01:30:59,360
themselves to your parents

2399
01:31:04,250 --> 01:31:01,679
and um

2400
01:31:05,930 --> 01:31:04,260
they just won't and and you know so I

2401
01:31:07,850 --> 01:31:05,940
I'd look at them and you know I look at

2402
01:31:09,470 --> 01:31:07,860
this whole thing and I say well you know

2403
01:31:10,970 --> 01:31:09,480
I'm trying to get mad at anybody I don't

2404
01:31:12,770 --> 01:31:10,980
get you know people come up with these

2405
01:31:14,510 --> 01:31:12,780
weird ideas of what this might be I said

2406
01:31:16,669 --> 01:31:14,520
yeah okay that's it's understandable

2407
01:31:18,229 --> 01:31:16,679
because the phenomena doesn't isn't

2408
01:31:20,450 --> 01:31:18,239
giving us anything it's been doing this

2409
01:31:23,149 --> 01:31:20,460
for 2 000 years since recorded history

2410
01:31:25,310 --> 01:31:23,159
more than 2 000 years it's been playing

2411
01:31:28,250 --> 01:31:25,320
with us and it plays this is why John

2412
01:31:30,830 --> 01:31:28,260
keel make that statement it's a damn

2413
01:31:32,270 --> 01:31:30,840
Cosmic joke right I mean if they're

2414
01:31:33,649 --> 01:31:32,280
deceitful you know whatever the hell

2415
01:31:35,330 --> 01:31:33,659
they are they're doing it on purpose

2416
01:31:38,209 --> 01:31:35,340
they're just banging us around a little

2417
01:31:39,470 --> 01:31:38,219
bit so now it gives you guys you know a

2418
01:31:41,030 --> 01:31:39,480
little original debt right because you

2419
01:31:43,430 --> 01:31:41,040
have to get this great little podcast

2420
01:31:45,590 --> 01:31:43,440
you have you know you get you get little

2421
01:31:48,169 --> 01:31:45,600
little morons like neon here looks yak

2422
01:31:50,149 --> 01:31:48,179
yak yak about all this kind of stuff but

2423
01:31:52,129 --> 01:31:50,159
we don't come up with anything

2424
01:31:53,750 --> 01:31:52,139
um I I don't think so

2425
01:31:55,790 --> 01:31:53,760
I I don't know

2426
01:31:57,649 --> 01:31:55,800
um we're trying to we're still trying to

2427
01:31:59,149 --> 01:31:57,659
find the needles in the haystack

2428
01:32:01,370 --> 01:31:59,159
we're still trying to figure out the

2429
01:32:03,110 --> 01:32:01,380
signal from the noise somebody once

2430
01:32:04,550 --> 01:32:03,120
mentioned to me you know we we haven't

2431
01:32:06,350 --> 01:32:04,560
connected the dots and I said I don't

2432
01:32:07,790 --> 01:32:06,360
even know if there's any dots let alone

2433
01:32:10,070 --> 01:32:07,800
trying to connect them I said what

2434
01:32:11,570 --> 01:32:10,080
thought is there you know there's some

2435
01:32:12,890 --> 01:32:11,580
you know Jacques pointed this out he

2436
01:32:15,310 --> 01:32:12,900
said there's there's a lot of stability

2437
01:32:17,870 --> 01:32:15,320
in in some of the

2438
01:32:19,850 --> 01:32:17,880
experiences that people have you know

2439
01:32:23,149 --> 01:32:19,860
you can write down six or seven things

2440
01:32:25,910 --> 01:32:23,159
that always pretty much always happen

2441
01:32:28,370 --> 01:32:25,920
but that's about it you know and and

2442
01:32:30,709 --> 01:32:28,380
it's not true all the time but it's true

2443
01:32:32,209 --> 01:32:30,719
nearly 60 70 of the time which is pretty

2444
01:32:34,790 --> 01:32:32,219
good

2445
01:32:36,649 --> 01:32:34,800
but try to extrapolate and take from

2446
01:32:38,390 --> 01:32:36,659
that what it actually means and and I

2447
01:32:40,790 --> 01:32:38,400
don't know I hope I'm not giving you

2448
01:32:42,110 --> 01:32:40,800
both a headache here because oh no we've

2449
01:32:44,750 --> 01:32:42,120
gone through this in our own personal

2450
01:32:47,030 --> 01:32:44,760
careers too like I said earlier you feel

2451
01:32:49,070 --> 01:32:47,040
like you make progress and then it's

2452
01:32:51,350 --> 01:32:49,080
just like maybe we're just not good

2453
01:32:53,990 --> 01:32:51,360
enough observers our spectrum is only so

2454
01:32:57,110 --> 01:32:54,000
wide this all you know exists all around

2455
01:32:59,689 --> 01:32:57,120
us maybe just biologically we will never

2456
01:33:02,090 --> 01:32:59,699
understand it maybe it's not Stranger

2457
01:33:05,270 --> 01:33:02,100
than we think it's Stranger than we can

2458
01:33:07,610 --> 01:33:05,280
think and we may never get there so we

2459
01:33:09,890 --> 01:33:07,620
have a a positive outlook that we want

2460
01:33:12,169 --> 01:33:09,900
to learn more do I personally believe

2461
01:33:14,930 --> 01:33:12,179
I'll ever understand it no I don't think

2462
01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:14,940
so yeah I don't know I mean I'm I I'm

2463
01:33:18,229 --> 01:33:16,560
leaning towards the fact that I don't

2464
01:33:19,790 --> 01:33:18,239
think in my at least in my lifetime

2465
01:33:23,270 --> 01:33:19,800
maybe yours you guys are a lot younger

2466
01:33:25,129 --> 01:33:23,280
you might come up with more data uh uh

2467
01:33:27,050 --> 01:33:25,139
but I think in my lifetime I think I'll

2468
01:33:29,689 --> 01:33:27,060
I'll you know I'll go on my Merry way

2469
01:33:31,790 --> 01:33:29,699
and and and never know really

2470
01:33:35,689 --> 01:33:31,800
even have a hint of what the hell it is

2471
01:33:38,570 --> 01:33:35,699
that's fine you know uh uh uh but what

2472
01:33:42,110 --> 01:33:38,580
you know what I look at

2473
01:33:44,390 --> 01:33:42,120
what bothers me the most I guess

2474
01:33:49,430 --> 01:33:44,400
from a human perspective

2475
01:33:52,250 --> 01:33:49,440
is all these experiences in contactees

2476
01:33:54,470 --> 01:33:52,260
uh and to a lesser extent you know

2477
01:33:56,030 --> 01:33:54,480
people like you you know the people that

2478
01:33:59,030 --> 01:33:56,040
are genuinely interested in this and

2479
01:34:01,390 --> 01:33:59,040
actually spend their time researching it

2480
01:34:03,470 --> 01:34:01,400
but particularly the the the

2481
01:34:04,790 --> 01:34:03,480
abductees or the people that have this

2482
01:34:07,610 --> 01:34:04,800
experience

2483
01:34:09,350 --> 01:34:07,620
that they've gone through so much you

2484
01:34:10,910 --> 01:34:09,360
know psychological pain sometimes

2485
01:34:12,350 --> 01:34:10,920
physical pain

2486
01:34:16,430 --> 01:34:12,360
and

2487
01:34:18,590 --> 01:34:16,440
there is no explanation for them what

2488
01:34:20,209 --> 01:34:18,600
did John Mack say John John Max said

2489
01:34:22,129 --> 01:34:20,219
something along the lines of

2490
01:34:25,250 --> 01:34:22,139
you know the the most we can ever say

2491
01:34:27,770 --> 01:34:25,260
about that this abduction stuff is it

2492
01:34:28,910 --> 01:34:27,780
it's a mystery and we really shouldn't

2493
01:34:30,350 --> 01:34:28,920
say anything more than that in other

2494
01:34:32,870 --> 01:34:30,360
words there's really because there's

2495
01:34:35,390 --> 01:34:32,880
nothing really more else to say

2496
01:34:38,629 --> 01:34:35,400
and um

2497
01:34:40,729 --> 01:34:38,639
and it's it's sort of um

2498
01:34:42,410 --> 01:34:40,739
It's upsetting when you think about it I

2499
01:34:45,470 --> 01:34:42,420
I you know all these people that have

2500
01:34:47,090 --> 01:34:45,480
this and you know many many will die

2501
01:34:49,669 --> 01:34:47,100
without ever knowing what it was all

2502
01:34:52,430 --> 01:34:49,679
about uh or

2503
01:34:54,229 --> 01:34:52,440
they'll come to their own conclusions of

2504
01:34:55,850 --> 01:34:54,239
you know maybe it was a way for them to

2505
01:34:57,649 --> 01:34:55,860
become more spiritually aware which I

2506
01:34:59,750 --> 01:34:57,659
think for the general population have

2507
01:35:02,270 --> 01:34:59,760
had this generally have that

2508
01:35:04,790 --> 01:35:02,280
uh but for other ones I know it's it's

2509
01:35:06,770 --> 01:35:04,800
just it's been horrendous for them you

2510
01:35:09,169 --> 01:35:06,780
know um just horrendous experience for

2511
01:35:10,910 --> 01:35:09,179
them they live with this and they and

2512
01:35:13,669 --> 01:35:10,920
some of them continue to live with it

2513
01:35:17,689 --> 01:35:13,679
you know that continue to have orbs

2514
01:35:22,609 --> 01:35:20,270
and 20 with them

2515
01:35:25,010 --> 01:35:22,619
in the abduction phenomenon is is is

2516
01:35:26,870 --> 01:35:25,020
traumatic as well like it's a violation

2517
01:35:28,189 --> 01:35:26,880
like you mentioned of of your human

2518
01:35:30,530 --> 01:35:28,199
rights of

2519
01:35:32,450 --> 01:35:30,540
everything that makes up you they're

2520
01:35:34,669 --> 01:35:32,460
just basically saying no we now have

2521
01:35:36,229 --> 01:35:34,679
control over this or whatever it is that

2522
01:35:38,270 --> 01:35:36,239
they're going to do to you so that's the

2523
01:35:39,550 --> 01:35:38,280
part that for a lot of people they have

2524
01:35:42,050 --> 01:35:39,560
a hard time wrapping their heads around

2525
01:35:44,990 --> 01:35:42,060
saying I had absolutely no authority

2526
01:35:46,609 --> 01:35:45,000
over my own body like I had to do you

2527
01:35:48,470 --> 01:35:46,619
know whatever procedures they told me to

2528
01:35:50,810 --> 01:35:48,480
do I was complying with them like it's

2529
01:35:52,790 --> 01:35:50,820
just it's so weird but it's great to

2530
01:35:55,010 --> 01:35:52,800
have you know people like yourself like

2531
01:35:57,890 --> 01:35:55,020
I mentioned saying hey this happened to

2532
01:36:00,590 --> 01:35:57,900
me right this and while I was working

2533
01:36:02,750 --> 01:36:00,600
with the CIA so obviously like I said to

2534
01:36:04,609 --> 01:36:02,760
me it's it's great to hear because it's

2535
01:36:06,590 --> 01:36:04,619
always something that I'm curious about

2536
01:36:08,149 --> 01:36:06,600
like the people in the CIA have

2537
01:36:10,669 --> 01:36:08,159
experiences to people in the military

2538
01:36:12,770 --> 01:36:10,679
have experiences and it seems to be the

2539
01:36:15,109 --> 01:36:12,780
case it seems to be that yeah everybody

2540
01:36:17,990 --> 01:36:15,119
everywhere different

2541
01:36:20,390 --> 01:36:18,000
uh you know Industries are experiencing

2542
01:36:22,189 --> 01:36:20,400
this phenomenon which again should we

2543
01:36:24,290 --> 01:36:22,199
call it phenomenon more of a happening

2544
01:36:25,970 --> 01:36:24,300
because that's what's happening it's no

2545
01:36:28,010 --> 01:36:25,980
longer a phenomenon phenomenon is like

2546
01:36:30,530 --> 01:36:28,020
rare occasions this almost takes place

2547
01:36:32,870 --> 01:36:30,540
on a daily basis so yeah I don't know if

2548
01:36:34,129 --> 01:36:32,880
we should change it or not but um Louie

2549
01:36:36,050 --> 01:36:34,139
do you have any final questions for our

2550
01:36:38,390 --> 01:36:36,060
guest today no I just want to extend a

2551
01:36:40,910 --> 01:36:38,400
really sincere thanks to Jim uh you know

2552
01:36:42,530 --> 01:36:40,920
it's been enlightening for us it's uh

2553
01:36:44,330 --> 01:36:42,540
it's difficult to run a type of show

2554
01:36:46,729 --> 01:36:44,340
like this and get really credible guests

2555
01:36:49,310 --> 01:36:46,739
and guys of your caliber there just

2556
01:36:52,010 --> 01:36:49,320
aren't many of and open-minded enough to

2557
01:36:54,050 --> 01:36:52,020
not be too opinionated you know we uh we

2558
01:36:55,970 --> 01:36:54,060
like to tell people that we bring forth

2559
01:36:57,590 --> 01:36:55,980
the guest you form your own opinion

2560
01:37:00,470 --> 01:36:57,600
they're not necessarily sharing our

2561
01:37:03,050 --> 01:37:00,480
ideas but it's their own but in today's

2562
01:37:04,370 --> 01:37:03,060
case in today's episode we you know

2563
01:37:05,810 --> 01:37:04,380
wholeheartedly agree with everything

2564
01:37:07,970 --> 01:37:05,820
you've said

2565
01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:07,980
um you know you've dedicated your life

2566
01:37:11,810 --> 01:37:10,320
to protecting the country but now you

2567
01:37:13,850 --> 01:37:11,820
want to help people understand what the

2568
01:37:16,370 --> 01:37:13,860
hell this actually is and you could

2569
01:37:20,209 --> 01:37:16,380
easily be I'm sure sitting in Boca Raton

2570
01:37:21,950 --> 01:37:20,219
drinking a a drink with a an umbrella in

2571
01:37:23,990 --> 01:37:21,960
it and just say you know what not for me

2572
01:37:26,030 --> 01:37:24,000
I'm retired but you still have that

2573
01:37:28,189 --> 01:37:26,040
drive and you have that that wanting to

2574
01:37:30,050 --> 01:37:28,199
find out and it's refreshing even for

2575
01:37:32,330 --> 01:37:30,060
younger guys ourself and people younger

2576
01:37:34,070 --> 01:37:32,340
than us without you guys in this

2577
01:37:35,689 --> 01:37:34,080
movement and to the stars and tongues

2578
01:37:37,850 --> 01:37:35,699
along and Hal put off and all the rest

2579
01:37:39,950 --> 01:37:37,860
this wouldn't have got where it is right

2580
01:37:41,930 --> 01:37:39,960
now and I think in the last five years

2581
01:37:44,330 --> 01:37:41,940
because of that Tic Tac video and all

2582
01:37:46,250 --> 01:37:44,340
the work that went behind the scenes we

2583
01:37:48,950 --> 01:37:46,260
all know more about this and there are

2584
01:37:50,810 --> 01:37:48,960
more people informed so so thank you for

2585
01:37:53,870 --> 01:37:50,820
doing what you do we do appreciate it it

2586
01:37:55,430 --> 01:37:53,880
doesn't go unnoticed uh some of us know

2587
01:37:57,770 --> 01:37:55,440
exactly who you are and couldn't wait to

2588
01:37:59,450 --> 01:37:57,780
talk to you so oh that's very nice I'm

2589
01:38:01,310 --> 01:37:59,460
Gonna Let You down and I enjoyed it

2590
01:38:05,090 --> 01:38:01,320
immensely and uh if you ever want me

2591
01:38:07,010 --> 01:38:05,100
back you guys are anytime anytime bring

2592
01:38:09,410 --> 01:38:07,020
your friends bring Tom and Hal with you

2593
01:38:11,870 --> 01:38:09,420
next time maybe maybe we can do that

2594
01:38:14,209 --> 01:38:11,880
absolutely friendly creatures yeah you

2595
01:38:21,400 --> 01:38:14,219
can do that right Hey listen guys thank